fred

I won't comment on the unsafe part. That is the instructor/DZ's call, and there's not enough information to comment on it. However, for them to not refund your money is an issue for me. You paid for services. They chose not to provide those services, so you are due a refund for an unused jumps. You kept your end of the deal, and they chose not to keep their end. They should refund a prorated amount of your money. I suspect you'd have a pretty easy case in small claims court. That is, if you kept your end of the bargain, which is to not endanger yourself and others. If they caught you drinking or doing drugs before skydiving, then no refund is required. I'm sure there are other circumstances that would constitute a violation of your side of the deal. But a lack of skill or even a bad attitude would not fulfill this requirement.

Can somebody explain the 'green arc'?

Ideally, in any transaction, the seller and buyer are both protected. If the seller is paid upfront, the buyer can easily be screwed (and in fact, the buyer getting screwed is the more common scam). I won't buy from somebody who wants to be paid upfront. And I don't think anybody should. We need to find an arrangement where the product is shipped to somebody who has something to lose if the deal goes sour (such as an established business). That somebody can ship it back if they don't receive payment, and can refuse to pay if they don't get the merchandise. The idea is to empathize with the buyer/seller, and find a third party who doesn't care about either, but will enforce the details of the agreement.

I've been following this thread since I'm interested, and I'm trying to visualize this, since my first image was after I stepped off aiming for the wheel, and I saw myself backflipping. So rewind, and we're talking about the exit. I'm standing on the step with my left foot, right foot dangling, and I'm grabbing onto the strut, Ready-Set-Go, and I've slipped my left foot off the step, and I'm looking up at the wing, and trying to hit my crotch on the step. I like it. Might explain why I'm usually fighting against a backflip.

What do you do before you get out of the plain to relax you? Do you take deep breaths? Visualize the freefall? After you're open, you can do the basic safety checks (locate other pilots, make sure your canopy is controllable/landable), and then you can take a moment to relax. Visualize a good approach and landing. Practice flaring and pay attention to what the wind does. Take deep breaths. Whatever you need to do to get yourself out of that 'nervous wreck' and into that 'pilot-in-command' attitude. Standard disclaimer about a low-jumper giving advice applies here, so take the following with a cube of salt: As a student, you're taught that the flare is a single action. Around 8 ft up, you do your flare and then land. And worse, if you flare too early, you're going to destroy your landing and hurt yourself or die. At 100 jumps, you should realize that this is something they teach students to keep them safe, but you can do better. The flare is a dynamic process of leveling out and slowing speed. Sometimes I start the flare too high, in which case I'm not going to level off as well as I could have, but I'm going to lose a lot more speed. Othertimes I flare too low, in which case I have to pull more to level off faster and don't lose as much speed, and I have to run it out. With the winds throwing in some randomness, it's all a matter of dialing it in and figuring it out. Looking straight down is clearly a bad idea. Looking straight ahead is, in my low-numbers experience, also bad. I like to watch my path and visualize it as a runway. If I flare too late, I know I have "pull up" (meaning, pull my brake lines faster). If I flare too early, I need to slow down the flare (not let up!) and probably run it out. Ideally, I will flare perfectly which puts me stopped and a couple feet above ground before I land.

I had them frequently as a student. I could blame it on the static line, but the other problems I had suggest that it was my own fault. Once I got to the point in my training where I had to be aware of my heading during the dive (not just keeping a heading, but actually able to pick a heading), the line twists went away, presumably because I was continuing to keep a heading during opening. Once off student status, I did a couple solos where I just practiced the things that you don't do very often or for very long during a normal skydive: (A) Flying in the 'throw' position. Touch your BOC with your right hand, using your left arm to compensate. Maintain a heading. (You can even turn like this). (B) Touch (not grab) your emergency handles. They're in a much different position in freefall than they are on the ground. I noticed this most after coming back from a long break. In my refresher, they asked me to not look and grab my handle, and I grabbed high and had to correct. This was wrong on the ground, but right in the air. I haven't had a reserve ride yet, so I expect they'll be somewhere between the two points in a partial reserve. (C) Tracking. You generally track at the end of the skydive, when a lot of other stuff has to happen and is on your mind. Take care with solo tracking (make sure you track perpendicularly to the jump run), but it's good to learn how much altitude you're losing during a track, and to practice it when you have altitude to spare. Of course, I'm low jump numbers and just coming back from a couple year break, so standard disclaimer applies.

Can anybody describe how the process is supposed to work? Suppose both buyer and seller are worried about being scammed. The seller wants to know that he's going to get paid. If he doesn't get paid, he wants his stuff back. Ideally, he gets his stuff back and anything he paid to ship the product. The buyer, however, wants stuff that lives up to the seller's promises. He probably wants his local rigger to look over the gear and make sure everything fits the description. If it doesn't match the description, he wants his money back. This is what an escrow service is for, right? But as far as I can tell, they only guarantee that the buyer gets "something", not necessarily what was advertised. What protects the buyer here? Are there good escrow services that will protect both parties? Any recommendations?

That's a nice looking helmet, and a pretty good price for skydiving gear.

QuoteThe sensory overload on my jump was so much that I completely spaced out what I was supposed to be doing, and didn't pull when I was supposed to. I think you just described what most people recall of their first jump. Pure sensory overload. That's why students start with Tandems like you did, or Static Line (where the ripcord is pulled for you), pilot-chute assist (where the instructor pulls the pilot chute from the plane) or AFF (where the instructor is there to pull). We have video of my dad doing a tandem, and come pull time he was just geeking the camera. The TI shoved the altimeter in front of his face, gave him the pull signal, and everything, and my dad just kept on smiling at the camera as the instructor pulled. Watch some videos on-line -- this seems to be how most tandems go. It sounds like you had a good time, didn't freak out, and did what you were supposed to do on your first jump (survive). You should go again. And then you can decide whether you are going to go a third time, or enter the student program, or just enjoy the memories (where's the fun in that?). At my old dropzone, we had an old lady who came back every year on her birthday to do a tandem. I think she was in her mid 80's when the place closed.

(standard warning about a poster with low jump numbers warning applies; talk to your instructors, they know more about your jumps than anybody here does). I did my training through static line, and had a hard time getting through 10second delays. I wasn't spinning so much as "Dolphining", and my instructors didn't like it. I went somewhere with AFI, and they took me out on a L3 dive. Things were great until the instructor let go of me, and then I started spinning. He stopped me, we got stable, and he let go again, and once again I was spinning or dolphing or ... just generally wasn't stable. When we got down, my instructor wasn't pleased. He had me lay down and hold show him my arch. So I showed him, then relaxed, and he said, "No, hold it. Keep that arch." And he made me hold it, and my abs hurt (it's a lot harder to hold an arch without the wind). He made corrections whenever I'd let a knee drop a little and basically put me into position and made me keep it there. I didn't like the instructor much when he made me do that. But next jump, I was stable and passed with flying colors, and pretty much cruised through the rest of the training. When we were tracking together in the air on L7, I couldn't thank him enough. Perhaps you could ask an instructor to evaluate your arch on the ground and help you out? If you're spinning, you clearly have something uneven. I expect the wind tunnel will help (that wasn't an option in my training). You just need to learn the muscle memory to know what position you're supposed to be in and how to hold it.

I'm a nerd, and I'm curious. Why are you descending slightly slower? The only reasons I can think of would be negligible differences (air density? Newtons third law (would that apply to unpowered aircraft?)). As to the OP, I'm one of those putzes you shouldn't listen to, but I think it bears mentioning that you should practice your flares up high. You can get a decent sense of when you're leveling off and when you're slowing down using wind noise. Flare a lot up high, and try to figure out what your parachute is doing. Test out the difference between flaring all the way down really fast, and doing a multi-stage flare where you level out and then bleed off speed. Talk to your instructors before you try a multi-stage flare on an actual landing, if they didn't teach you that. When it comes to final approach, keep your eyes in front of you (not straight down, not at the horizon) and try to do things smoothly. I need to work on completing the flare, since I tend to level off and then, when slow enough, run it out. But I'm pretty sure I could be leveling off and stopping in most cases.

Thanks Wendy, I probably am hoping for the suit to do too much. But a custom jumpsuit seems like something that will help (not solve!) the speed issues, as opposed to the free suit I currently have. And the pricerange for basic suits seems like it's worth it to buy new rather than trying to find a used suit that's close but not quite right. It just seems like there are so many decisions to make that I'm not prepared to make. Looking again, it doesn't look like tony suits has quite as many options about fabrics as they used to. But still, size of grips? Inseem grips? Booties? Cuffs and swoop cords? And god forbid I pick colors that look good on the computer screen but turn out to be atrocious. As I said, it just seems a little overwhelming.

Most of my searches have turned up people who want to fall faster, or are asking how necessary a suit is. What about those of us who fall like a rock? With a lot of effort in my 1980's style baggy jumpsuit, I can slow myself down to the low 120's. If I'm doing a solo and just want to fall stable, I'm well into the 130's according to my protrack. I think a better suit would help me out. I'm a fan of tonysuits, but they want me to specify the material for every aspect of my suit and I'm overwhelmed. And letting me pick the colors from an on-line pallet scares me. Where are the people who will look at me or my measurements, and figure out a suit that will be appropriate?

Point Break? :) Kinda instructional, I guess. Teaches you how to talk during the 3 minutes of freefall.

I don't know if I'm the one who should post this, but I know that there are some people here who started jumping at Great Lakes Skydivers in Gobles, Michigan or others who may have known the DZO or his family. On Monday, Dennis Johnson, DZO and instructor, was killed in an ultralight accident. He was a great teacher, mentor, and friend, and will be missed by many. There is a visitation on Thursday and a memorial on Friday. I can provide what little more information I have if requested by PM or email. There are no plans to continue operation of the dropzone. (Moderators, if you think this isn't the proper channel, feel free to move this message to somewhere more appropriate)

At my dz, beer is allowed after the last plane of the evening takes off. Perhaps you're not staying late enough? You don't have to ask the DZO. Ask one of the experienced jumpers. They'll let you know how to supply free beer. ;)

This is my issue with it. I've seen 120# girls jumping 140 sq ft canopies at about 1:1 and they come in fast, with both more forward speed and greater vertical descent. I've seen 230# men jumping 190 sq ft canopies (around 1.3:1) that come in much more docile. I'm around 200#, loading at 1.1:1 (and a fresh A license, thus greatly exceeding the BSR), but I can land pretty accurately, crosswind or downwind, and feel like I have a lot more time in comparison to make decisions. I stand up most of my landings, can do flat turns at reasonable altitudes, and can land in half brakes. Given a potentially bad off-landing or mistake on approach, I think I'm better situated (due to equipment, not experience) to land safely than a lighter person at a lower wingloading. While I'm not anxious to downsize, it seems that wingloading, while easy to calculate, is not sufficient to represent what seems to be a nonlinear relationship of risk versus exit weight/canopy size, and thus should not be the basis of a BSR. I hope I don't sound like a statistic waiting to happen (that is, I really hope I'm not), but my observations tell me that lighter people should be more conservative with wingloading, and heavier people can go a bit higher without increasing their risk of a hospital visit.

You probably want to clarify this with an instructor. At my home DZ, we were taught, "no radical maneuvres under 1500ft." (meaning spins, stalls, etc.). No turns under 1k feet seems like a very long final leg.

Was that tongue in cheek? I thought it was recommended to not try the pond until you're already a skilled swooper?

Definately Birthday. With 25 people in the room, there's a 100% chance that two of them share the month (thanks to the pigeonhole principle, we actually know that there are 3 in the room with the same month). That there is a 50% chance of them sharing the same day goes against intuition. Here's a more thorough description, but in the light of morning, I forget why I thought it related to this thread. (er, I remember why I thought it related: the answer is beer.)

Exactly. Pick a random person from the population, and this chart presents their chances. If this chart were restricted to skydivers, then there would probably be subcategories. Think about the birthday effect: Get 25 people in a room, and there's about a 50% chance that two of them share a birthday. The odds of them sharing your birthday, however, are about 7%.

Good luck on your second S/L! I started on static line, but got stuck on 10second freefalls. I was comfortable exiting the plane and landing (I even became comfortable spotting), but just could not fall stable. I would either spin or just chip until pull. I ended up taking a vacation to Arizona and did AFF there, which worked very well for me. Everybody learns differently, and everybody has problems with different parts. Stick with it, and be safe.

I still swear that this happened on my first jump. I heard "prepare to flare", waited for the "flare" command, never heard it, flared (on my own) too late, and PLF'd. Swear. S'truth!

Good story, but coming from a Cessna/Static-Line DZ, I find it funny that you think 5k ft is "insanely low". The students here do their first 5 static line jumps from 3500ft, and their sixth jump is a clear and pull from 4k.

Profile was wrong; I'm not sure how that happened. Thanks for pointing that out. I have 90-some jumps and an A license, spread out over 4 years due to poorly timed job problems, though I'm not sure how that's relevant to my question.