Para5-0

Correct> Bring back the AFFJM. for the hundreth time.. Why dont we all get on a conference call and at the exact same time smash our head into a wall. It would be less painful then hearing us all preach the same thing for 13 pages. The BOD needs to know there is a problem. I concur with skymonkey, there will be a fatality related to this topic. It is now a numbers game.

I checked your profile and I am glad I did, your RD is my RD. Randy Schroeder.

It is good to see we are on the same page. Not to mention our D numbers are close, did you take some time off or just jumped part time? I am going to start making some more noise about this topic..See what happens.

All good but some DZ's do AFP and only do 1 Instructor dives. What we do is keep the newer AFF's on Level 1,2 non release for a time period.

You ask some good questions. Our chain of command is S&TA, Regional Director, National Director, Safety and Training commitee, BOD. The first step IMHO is to change the requirements of a coach rating to 200 jumps and a C license. If we can manage to do that: The next step would be to require a 12 month in coach rating to be eligible to take a AFF course. This will presumably give the coach at least 20 coach jumps as requirred for renewal and 12 more months of experience. Then: Bring back the AFF JM rating. After completion require that a AFFJM be a JM for 12 months prior to being elligible for AFFI status. This will allow a JM to train along side seasoned AFFI and learn how to teach and how to fly with real students. mentorship program. This would be my perfect world of skydiving. Oh I would also add a time in sport requirement for the AFFJM course and up the jumps to 1000. Sorry I am an asshole, while I am dreaming here. Results: Dedicated instructors who have taken a path specifically to become quality instructors. Earn respect for going the distance to get an Instructor rating. They will by this time have the respect at the DZ of fellow jumpers. Integrity will be restored in the AFFI rating. It will be again looked at as a rating that is considered the golden chalice of ratings. It used to be as I have stated, that the AFF rated skydivers were held in regard as at the top of the sport kind of guys. Trust me when I say because I have spoken to many many people and they have all said the same thing."The rating has become a joke" That should infuriate AFFI's that have gone through the new course. Dont you want to be respected for your accomplishments? I would. Or screw this whole dam concept and let it go the way it is. I have put to much time into this and I feel as if I am pissing into a fan. Problem: The only people advocating for this are seasoned instructors. Everyone else is argueing against it. Why would someone coming up the ranks argue for it to be harder to get a rating? They wouldnt, or at least very few. Why would DZO's argue for it to be harder to get a rating? They wouldnt. Who is on the BOD? DZO's...Hence the problem. Very few are advocating for more stringent policies. The funny thing is that the ones advocating for the above are the ones that are currently doing the job. Shouldnt they have the strongest say? Shouldn't the rating be determined by current AFFI's or AFF I/E's? If the board will shoot everything down then turn the fan on high because the piss is flying. I was told that the jump requirement for coach has been brought up numerous times to the BOD, and it has been voted down each time. WHY? Unfortunately it will take several student deaths to get people to look at this differently. We are trying to prevent that. Remember that word proactive not reactive. and lastly the poll in this months parachutist about the coach rating is comical. Out of a membership of upward of 30,000 people or whatever the heck it is, 106 responded to the poll. Who the hell were the 106? I guarantee the 52 that wanted it to stay the same do not have it yet and the 6 that want it easier to get definately do not have it yet. How about a real poll? Poll all Instructors that are USPA members. Send it out with membership renewal. Ask Instructors what the coach rating requirements should be, no the general whuffo world. I am done now. Have a nice day.

I hope that everyone that has read this whole thread as painful as that might be, will consider voicing their opinion about: the coach rating requirements, the time in rating (Coach) prior to AFF CC., bringing back the AFFJM rating. A time in sport requirement for AFF CC. All of these will help the safety of students and create dedicated rounded instructors. As far as statistics, you will not get them because the lost students, cyprus fires, two out, and any other jump where the instructor may be leaving himself open to discussion are either not on video, not reported, or the video is lost. Accurate data will never be available.

Back to the AFF JM rating. I am still waiting to hear the downside of it. I do like the panel idea though, maybe a panel should teach the AFF course. or at least two I/E's and evaluator's. But then of course we would be taking money away from some full time course I/E's. round and round we go.

Great post: If you read back through some older posts on this thread I have shown serious support for bringing back the AFFJM rating. A JM will work under a more seasoned AFFI and hopefully, through supervision they will earn the I rating, not just have it handed to them after one a one week course. I used the comparison of a Capt. and a First Officer of a large airline jet. The first officer learns for sometimes hundreds of hours if not years from seasoned Captains before actually flying the plane from the Captains seat. In out sport we are giving the keys to the jet so to speak with no mentorship. Then we are asking ourselves why are students being lost in the air. Tell me one disadvantage to a JM rating? Why cant a JM mentor under an I for a period of time to be determined as a finite period of time or until the AFFI or AFF I/E says youare ready to progress to a full fledged Instructor. Am I bias? Yes. I was a AFFJM and had to ride reserve side level 1's and 2's for some time before they let me go main side and even then I was with a AFFI under close supervision. I just do not get the Rush to certify full fledged Instructors. And if that is what the S&TA's are doing now then why not bring back the AFFJM rating and put some of the responsibility on the Instructors (Seasoned) It sets up a heirarchy and does not create these new AFFI's coming out expecting to be treated as equals. Remember not all S&TA's are instructors although many are. As an Instructor or an I/E I have much less problems helping mold and shape a new JM into an Instructor then to be expected to do the same as an S&TA. Better yet let the DZ I/E make the call on whether the JM is ready, after they complete a set time in rating. 1-2 years is good by me. This will do two fold. First it will give the newly rated Instructor a sense of accomplishment and it will give him time to earn his wings among fellow jumpers. How many times have you heard I cant beleive he got his AFF rating. Now at least we can keep an eye on them for a period of time.

I want to make sure I understand this. As an S&TA, I am now responsible for determining whether or not a candidate is cleared to work with students? Although, I already do it to some extent, assuring that new AFF's slowly progress and pick up experience prior to cutting them loose. What is the course for then? The AFF I/E is determining if they are ready, and in my opinnion, obviously they are dropping the ball. The more work I have to do as a S&TA the less or worse job the I/E did to prepare the AFFI. Take a step back and assume, that the course evaluates a candidates teaching ability, flying ability, and maturity. Then the S&TA just has to confirm and supervise the progression. or how it is now- just start handing out the ratings and let all the onus fall on the DZO and S&TA. What I am saying and have been advocating is a evaluation course that is run with some continuity. and while I am at it make it thorough enough to determine if a candidate has accumulated the requirred skill to keep a student alive. and yes maturity over the length of a properly run course can be determined.

Amen to your post, I can give ample amount of examples..... I would love to hear from the 52 skydivers that voted that the standards were ok for Coach rating and more importantly the 6 asswipes who think it is too difficult. Who are they polling in this issue of Parachutist? How the hell is 100 jumps too difficult? how about we just give Coach ratings with the A license, we can make it a sign off on the yello card this way the coach rating can be lowered to 25 jumps. Wake up people will you.

I have been advocating a time as coach requirement. If you make it a 12 month requirement then at least you should have a guy with and extra year and 20 coach jumps (In theory). That will enhance the Tandem I as well, guys are taking the coach course just to get their Tandem I, clearly stating "I am just getting this to get my Tandem Rating" I have had multiple students one week in the Coach course and the next in a tandem I, without making one coach jump or working with one student. I hear that knowing they will not make one coach jump, and I get discouraged, teaching the class. It will also give us some coaches who if they relly want to be Instructors will wait the 12 monthes. What would be the harm? Flame Away!

Marko and Ozzy maybe take this little dispute to Bonfire, we can call it who is the bigger peckerhead....or maybe Ozzy can have Marko step around behind the tent.....Kick his ass Marko.

I am assuming these are posted as a joke? But those swoops sucked. Can you say stab out of the corner.

Save the money buy a King Air or Pac 750

I bet if it were to come out that the passenger was a licensed skydiver, that would throw a wrench in the stake burning, "Oh I never thought of that." No shit. Remember three sides to every story.

Jumps - 8500 Cutaways - 10 Mostly Line twists, one uncocked pull out (Pilot Chute in Tow), two tandems mals 2 line overs

We have a BINGO!

Andy, I see your point and could possibly agree with you given the facts of JUST the video. Like I said he did not act unprofessional, and did not hide behind the BSR's. Rich

Fellas, Relax, I am the S&TA at this DZ. All I can say is that the jump was most definatley done under safe conditions and that no BSR's were violated. I know the TI and he is very capable and in no way put any student at harm or risk. Due to privacy issues that is all I can say, but I assure you there may be more to the story. Thanks,

"And I am not saying the OP is like that" Must have missed the above line when you read the response. If I have misjudged, I apologize, but let us know why would you come to the States for three month's? The appearance is: 1. Get experience (Jump Numbers) 2. Make money in the U.S. Is there work where you live? Unfortunately money is the bottom line in many of these situations. I can not say I blame you or that I may not do the same. The bottom line and at the end of the day we all know what the deal is, we have seen it over and over again. If it makes you feel better there probably is some DZO's that will hire you and let you make as much as you can. If you make the effort to do it the legal way then so be it. Let us know your motives and plans so we do not have to make assumptions based on loosely asked questions.

I respectfully disagree. Taking New TI's from over seas who are coming here strictly to make as much money as possible is not good for the sport. I see enough of these guys already who could care less about actually training a student, or what the winds are like. Each tandem is just another dollar they are taking with them as they exit the U.S. laughing. These guys are in it for jump numbers only..And I am not saying the OP is like that, I am just saying, stay over there. Go to New Zealand, or here is an idea stay there and work. Why would we want to babysit and waste our time educationg a guy who is clearly here to get as much as he can and leave? Sorry for being politically non correct so flame away.

We have the Haunted forrest near by and it seems to suck up every main and freebag, I personally have spent hours upon hours searching for my shit in there. I would rather land in trees just so I didnt have to endure the search. Just kidding. But I will follow my shit whenever it is feasible and I can land safely in the general area. I will not catch anything in the air though, although tempting not generally a good idea.

You answered your own question..

Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise And songs to Alma Mater raise While our hearts rebounding thrill With joy which death alone can still Summer's heat or winter's cold The seasons pass the years will roll Time and change will surely (truly) show How firm thy friendship ... OHIO! Go Bucks!!!

I would like to thank many of the previous posts, I actually belly laughed at one. To the OP: if Andrea is a female next time start the post as follows: Hello, I am a hot south African female wanting to know more about x,y,z....your server will crash. Your welcome. Still laughing at one response above.