321Cya

Cheers Coco. Those are exactly the words I was looking for all day... J. www.vandrunen.ch

Then you might want to consider a new insurance company Today I was shown a section that I think was copied from the policy of the REGA (a similar organisation like AG) that stated that even if your own insurance pays nothing they will surely (try to) pay out something as long as you are a member. Obviously, by having your insurances sorted (both private and AG) you can save yourself lots of grief. Take in mind that in my initial post I simply try to explain what the AG themselves told me. The exact details of what happens when a rescue is needed followed by a bill and claim will differ per person depending on their own insurance situation. Best way to find out is to call them yourself on +41 33 8 560 560 (they speak perfect english). For more general information you can also have a look here http://www.airglaciers.ch/lauterbrunnen/airglaciers.htm (only in German) J. www.vandrunen.ch

If you were there and had seen the position of the jumper at the time you would understand the '' icon. I could have been more specific when I said 'hanging in a tree', but I wasn't. My bad. J. www.vandrunen.ch

Does that mean that you need to have your own private insurance in order to get a letter of rejection (answers) to send to Air Glaciers, or is simply having no private insurance enough for them to pay you out as long as you're a member with them? J. PS: Will you bring some of that 'magic' German stuff again next time you're over ? www.vandrunen.ch

I guess it's better to have something than nothing. Having the Air Glaciers insurance will make you a member with them and that gives you rescue priority. I have seen a situation where a person was asked for the membership while hanging in a tree. The person was not and was then asked if climbing down was a possibilty . Money-wise, having the insurance will at least increase your chances of getting any money at all. J. www.vandrunen.ch

To all you jumpers out there that are going to visit the valley in the future. I would like to address the 'real deal' behind the helicopter insurance that you can AND SHOULD buy for 30 Swiss Francs at the Air Glaciers Helicopter Rescue Station in the Valley. I recently got this explained to me by them and I believe that there are some misconceptions about this and thus giving a lot of jumpers a false sense of security . 1. If you end up needing helicopter rescue, the helicopter service WILL come and rescue you. 2. If you bought this insurance from them IT DOES NOT mean that they will pay for your rescue in full. 3. You should have your own insurance that covers heli rescues (repatriation I think it's called) and the additional insurance that you buy from Air Glaciers will only cover that part of the bill that your own insurance doesn't pay. In practice this means: When you get rescued by Air Glaciers, you WILL receive a bill at home. You should then send this bill to your insurance. They might then pay all and that's the end of it. But, according to Air Glaciers, insurance companies usually end up paying only a percentage of the bill (60%, if I remember correct) and in that case you can then send the remainder of the bill to the Air Glaciers. They will then sort that part out for you (if you bought their insurance that is). Everybody should use their own judgement whether this is important to them. Getting in trouble financially because of a decision to not pay a small insurance fee would suck big time... Think before you jump....and jump ! J. PS: Tom, what about making this sticky for a while? www.vandrunen.ch

Hey Michi, that is not exactly true. I'll post the real deal about this in a seperate thread to make this clear to ALL jumpers for once and for all, ok? Air Glaciers recently explained to me what we can expect for this fee. J. www.vandrunen.ch

There are many dams, but even if you'd knew the locations I would be surprised if you'd even find half of 'em. Some are very remote and virtually unreachable in February (due to the snow). One thing is for sure: If you go there you better go with somebody who knows them (like MikkiZH, who WILL bring you there for plenty of whisky ), who owns a car (prefferably a 4x4 with chains in the back, like MikkiZH ) and enough time on his hands (like MikkiZH ) cause they are all far from both Zurich and Bern. J. www.vandrunen.ch

Not a little sketchy, but very I would say. Clampons come in handy. Horner Pub. Ask around in town. Yes, so please don't litter and don't jump the Waterfall. Not an issue in February Packing on tarps behind the pub is possible, but cold. People often pack inside the accomodation area of the pub. That will mean lots of travel. Possibly. Horner is the best place to meet other jumpers. I recommend you to stay at the Horner in the weekend. This way you get more out of your time there. Remember that it will be dark at around 4-5pm in the winter. For train times to and from the valley check here www.sbb.ch/en. To reach the valley you travel to the train station of Lauterbrunnen. Some more advice: Take warm and water-resisting clothes, hiking boots, clampons, gloves etc.! If I think of anything more I'll post it. This should do it for now. Be Safe. J. www.vandrunen.ch

Before people start firing again I'll first ask if anybody is actually interested in seeing the complete translation of the article? (I can tell you that it is not very nice) Piifish did summarize it pretty well without mentioning the real upsetting stuff. Let me know. J. www.vandrunen.ch

Hang on a sec! You have the balls to call this the dorkzone, but you don't even have the balls to show who you are. People are free to discuss whatever they want on here and you can tell them what you think of what they said. But to call the whole forum a 'dorkzone' is slighty out of line. YOU are the DORK by doing that, in case you didn't realize. And I am now contiously making a dork out of myself to even spend time on telling you this. My reason for posting on this forum is because I work offshore on oil-rig and I'm bored to death (don't tell my boss...). Also this particular thread is about my local spot. Everybody else has their own reasons so let them be and discuss with them what you like. But don't tell them what you think is right or wrong, cause you might be wrong you know. J. Damn, reading this back I realize I must be really bored... www.vandrunen.ch

Yes. Any newbie jumper might learn from this thread that the Swiss Valley is an advanced jumping site and therefore not suitable for him/her until they are more experienced. And even then it is a site to treat as technically difficult and with respect. J. Edited to add. www.vandrunen.ch

To Csaber and all other guys who posted after him saying that people have been speculating etc. Yes, you guys are all a bit right. However, I don't think there is a real need to bash some people's post, whether they might have been misplaced or not (perhaps including my own, eventhough not a single line was quoted so far...). First of all people are free to say and think what they want and post it (that's where forums are for), whether you agree or not with what they say. Second of all, this is about a fatality and that's when emotions run high from both the people who post immediately before any facts are out and from the ones reacting on that accordingly. Third point is that a considerable amount of the jumpers who posted immediately are actually local to the valley (including myself) and, as we all know, have seen fatalities happen here more than anywhere else. Not that they own the place or anything, but at least they should have the right to react, discuss and speculate about what happens in their backyard and actually so does anybody else (as long as this happens with respect to the deceased and his family and friends) Last point I wish to make is that the largest part of the discussion (or speculations as you call it) as I read it was actually about throwing 1st-timers off these kind of walls. It is now a fact that it was not the case here, but it has been in the past and it should not happen ever again. I think a lot of the 'speculators' were making a point out of that, more than about the actual accident itself, which should be a reason for concern. I feel very sad that another life has been lost in our sport and I hereby send my sincere condolences to the jumper's family and friends... J. www.vandrunen.ch

Agreed J. www.vandrunen.ch

The word research, that I quoted from LukeH's post, in this case would mean to find out everything about this site (there's a vast amount of information about this site available on the www) and the jumper would then have realized that this place is probably a little too advanced for somebody with his experience. After that it's up to the jumper's discrepency and that of his mentors to make the right decisions. However, as said in my earlier post, not all jumpers might be as well-informed as us for whatever reason. What could also be the case is that in his world or in his experience of the situation he and his mates might not have seen this as a big deal, simply because of different ethics and methods etc. Not trying to say I support their ways, en contraire. But it might not be as easy as it seems for all people to know and do what we know and do. As for the evasive behavior of the 2 "experienced" jumpers, 1.) "experienced", Has that been confirmed? Were they actually experienced? 2.) I am not so sure if they really KNEW that they were cutting corners. Perhaps you are right and they did, but in my experience with Eastern Europeans I know now that they behave/talk/react in ways that might sound like 'evasive' to you, but in fact isn't. J. www.vandrunen.ch

True. But the questions are if he did do his research and if the other two jumpers were actually 'experienced'? Therefore I think it's not so obvious at all. Not all of us are looking at DZ.com, have a group of BASE jumpers around them to learn from or know what we know... It's a sad and unnecessary loss that should be a lesson for future jumpers. Now we only need to find a way to get the message across. Hopefully a ban won't be that way! My condolences go out to family and friends of the jumper. J. www.vandrunen.ch

Here's a few from the worksite. Wonder what they thought when they made 'em... J. www.vandrunen.ch

There's no such thing as 'a stupid question' and for those 'popular forum contributors' backlashes' no one should be afraid. Those people should go out more rather than sitting behind a pc all the time. It's them who should think by themselves 'wtf am I doing lashing somebody', not you... In the 2 weeks I work offshore I'm on the forum and read quite a bit and sometimes make posts, simply because I have no chance to jump. In the 2 weeks onshore I'm not waisting my time to this forum cause there's a world out there!!!!!! However, in the 2 weeks I do read it I quite enjoy it, so my vote: Keep it up! tnx, J. www.vandrunen.ch

The colour of the getaway car is to bright and it also looks kinda slow to me... Am I right??? www.vandrunen.ch

I am glad to have met you and spent time with you on your way through Switzerland. You were an inspiring person and jumper. Fly free now bro... Joris. www.vandrunen.ch

Better late then never.... Happy Birthday Joy! Joris BASE892 www.vandrunen.ch

Any new exitpoints yet? J. www.vandrunen.ch

Hey Michi, have you been drinking? I hope it will though... J. www.vandrunen.ch

Perhaps slightly off topic, but I just came across these amazing pictures, that made my jaw drop... http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/erde/0,1518,426293,00.html It's an article from a German new site about the current 'rock fall' situation on the Eiger East flank. Text is in German, but simply click on the pictures in the middle and you'll get to see 9 shots of the section that has come off and a few pics of smaller rock falls that happened so far... For sure this will make the surrounding earth shake like hell, so let's all hope that the M. doesn't fall off once the lot goes... J. www.vandrunen.ch

Hey Ronald, I remember Mike telling about that particular hike and I've seen some pictures as well. Glad you guys made it back ok.... When we went up (July 05) the conditions were much better. Some icey patches, but that was it. You could basically walk around them. According to Mike, who was there as well that time, the hike we had was half as long, but I don't think he remembered the exact route you guys took so it might well have been the better conditions. Either way, gnarly hike, but absolutely beautiful. Will you come over and do it sometime this year? Joris. www.vandrunen.ch