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Standard Adiabatic (did I spell that right?) lapse rate is 2 degrees per thousand feet. I am a math idiot so differentiating between C and F is too complicated. (Real world it won't make a rat's keester!) That means that if it is 55 degrees f on the ground, it will be approximately 29 degrees f at 13,500' altitude if your DZ is at approximately 500' MSL. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......... But only for a short time if your DZ has a great wood stove! (Northern DZ's take note...) Y'all did a nekkid skydive for your pilot's 1000th jump hour?? Someone owes me TWO out of the Otter!! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Of the DZO's I have worked for: DZO#1 - Owned the land and the planes. Made a subsistence existence, but the airport/DZ was his living. DZO#2 - Retired Navy. DZO#3 - M/F couple. Both ran gear shop, which had internet sales adn outside contracts. Wife had outside job, ran operation and taught skydiving on weekends. DZO#4 - Owns numerous other small businesses, which he runs. Wife is business executive. Won't get into DZO's who I have no direct contact with. 3 out of 4 = most. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

"LOL, yes DZO's do it for the love of it but most are also trying to make money...." Most DZO's work a day job or have other sources of income to make ends meet. If they are trying to "make" money, it is trying to make a living wage. Most jumpers have absolutely no idea what it costs to put a plane load of jumpers into the air, or pay rent, utilities, etc. As to the gentleman talking about tipping being pervasive where he goes, maybe that is something in Europe and Africa. As far as I have seen, tipping is all but non-existent in the DZ's I have worked at. Back to the thread, if you don't feel obligated to thank someone properly for spending hours recovering your $3000 canopy, then don't. That person will probably go out after canopys again, including yours. They do it for the love. If you are complaining about the bottle or the COB you should pay, perhaps it is you who are the money person. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

"Of course the DZ is there to make money" Not to divert the thread, but a DZ is NOT there to make money! Any DZO who is surviving has to be a competent businessman/woman, who would make a heck of a lot MORE money in ANY other field. At some DZ's, owners could sell the land and the planes and retire to the Bahamas, to jump and enjoy life without all the hassles. They choose not to. DZO's choose to operate a non-profit operation because of their love of the sport and the people they serve/jump with/party with. DZ's COST money, LOTS of it! Back on thread, if someone rescues your $3000 canopy from the wilderness you own them some tangable thanks for saving YOU lots of money. A tip and/or beer and/or maybe a bottle of their favorite beverage all are in line for someone who just made sure that you don't have to spend a month's pay on another main. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Awsome weather is predicted! The Otter is running sweet!! Old friends have returned! New friends are gathering! Rock and Roll!! Blue Skies! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

From the limited view of flying skydivers, getting a commerical pilot's license without an instrument rating is functional, but a false economy. The knowledge you gain in working for your instrument rating will go far to prepare you for the commercial ticket. Many people get the tickets close together because they have studied and practiced up on the same things, so it is not as much of a price difference to get them both. Pilot wise, if people are paying you money to haul their parachuted butts into the air, they deserve the best trained, most proficient pilot available, given the level of aircraft. You may believe that with your minimal hours (you don't say how many you have or how long you have had your private license) that you can handle flying skydivers safely, but I have seen a 750 hour Comm/Inst/IA with several hundred jumps walk away from a 182 after only one day because it was too much for him. "It's not fun" he said. I have also seen a 6000 hour airline pilot, on active duty with the military but wanting to maintain his flying proficiency, take several weekends to get qualified in a 182 because flying from point A to point B with a box lunch in between is far different than flying from point A to point A 22 times a day. He eventually became an excellent jump pilot, but even experienced pilots (and jumpers who become pilots) have trouble dealing with the fast pace of a short, compressed skydiving flight. The fact that you would like to fly the plane also instead of just jump out of it is commendable. It will broaden your experience in the field, and expand your opportunities should you decide to stay in the wonderful world of skydiving. Many DZO's start off as pilots and expand their experience from there. But Dropzones all over the world are littered with the crumpled carcasses of aircraft flown into the ground by poorly trained, inexperienced pilots, hired by short-sighted DZO's who were trying to save a buck, who ended up paying for that decisions with lives and planes. Experience does not guarantee that every flight will be perfect, but inexperience and lack of training guarantees that, should everything not go perfect on every flight 22 times a day, the outcome of a delicate situation will be deeply in question. If you are going to fly professionally, BE professional. Get the training, tickets and experience you need. If your DZO is truly interested in having a trained, safe pilot flying his customers, he will pay for some or all of the training, and you will commit yourelf to his success because he has opened a whole new world for you. Flying skydivers is some of the best flying there is for a pilot. It is fast paced, challenging, and deeply satisfying after a long day of flying fully loaded planes out of short strips, with everyone landing safely back at the DZ. The beer seems especially cold, the quiet more profound, the friendships and trust very deep. It is great to be a jumper-dumper! Good luck for your future! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Hartwood is now open seven days a week, and is DEFINITELY open on Fridays. Get enough buds together and we will launch the Twin Otter, and we have the 206 for smaller groups. Phone number is 540.752.4784. Talk to Kevin or Jackie to schedule ahead of time. Looking forward to throwing you out! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Just moved back to VA from Los Angeles, and winter is sure going to be a shock. Gotta order a lot of stuff from LL Bean. Jump wise, Hartwood is an hour closer to DC EACH WAY than Orange. Heard good things about Orange, but if you want friendly and close, Hartwood is the place. We've got everything including a loft and hot showers. Full time Twin Otter, and we send it up light with a couple of tandems or students. 14K ALL the time! Invest in thinsulate and a balaclava, and warm yourself by the woodstove in Manifest when you get cold. Jackie's hot soup helps too!! Wherever you choose, blue skies!! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

You can buy two used Twin Otters for the price of a new PAC, or one Twin Otter and a LOT of fuel and maintenance. And the Otter is bigger with twin-engine redundancy. The low tail concerns me for an airplane supposedly designed for skydiving. Pictures I see appear to have the elevator lower than a King Air's. A mid-tail(cruciform) elevator would have been much more suitable for skydiving AND short-field. I am waiting for the first PAC taken out by a tail impact. I think the 750 was an adapted design, and the manufacturers billed it as a primarily skydiving plane for marketing purposes. I would love to fly it, but I will make sure to have an in-date rig on my back for all jump operations. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

An otter? At Hartwood? A little tight for a loaded otter, dontcha think? Absolutely no problem geting the Otter in and out of Hartwood. Mid sized loads so far on some rather warm days, and lifted off in less distance than the T-Bone. 1500' to 2000' FPM initial rate of climb, giving us 12 minutes to 14K on the last load Sunday. And of course with a good headwind a light Otter can land in the Peas. For former Hartwoodians, the old Beech has been sold. A pilot from Texas is planning on restoring her. Elizabeast will fly again at Hartwood, if only for some training flights and a last farewell. But she will go on to fly again. YAY! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Help! Hartwood paracenter in Virginia is open again big time, but we are unable to post it to the DZ database. The form keeps coming up blank when we press post. Could you help us? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

four loads to 14k in the Otter yesterday, and the plane is flying sweet. Hartwood is open for business!!!!!!!!! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

mmmmmmmmmmm......... Radials... Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Hartwood is BACK! Three C206 loads Saturday, plus lots of old and new smiling faces. Twin Otter in-bound/ready to rock in two weeks. Can't wait for that first 22-way... Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

If push comes to shove, forget the Red Bull... Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

"Thankyou for flying Aeroflot. And remember, we're not happy until YOU'RE not happy..." Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

I didn't say that at all. What you have to say is important, but only if you are in the game. If you are truly getting out of skydiving, then get out. Move on. Don't sit here worrying an old wound. If you feel the need to continue to contribute, then stay in the sport. Make a decision and GO with it. But don't sit there and tell everyone WHY you got out. You are out, you say. Are you really? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

My apologies on a very poor choice of terms. Everything worked out fine. Many thanks for your efforts, and for DZ.Com Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

There are also two spams in the employment catagory, one for an MLM scheme and another for some sort of marketing scam. I was flamed by one of the monitors for complaining about the MLM (which is back on) after it had sat there for a couple of weeks, and now it has been on for at least a week again and more seem to be on the way. Could we have someone look at this? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Whatever... Yes, I have seen it all, all the stuff you have seen and more, and have seen and fought the problems and these issues are important, and YES you want to control things if you can, but only under duress. You have said that you are out of it. If you want to come back in and share your expertise, you will have many forums. When you are ready to get back into the game, drop me a line. I may only be a pilot for a small East Coast DZ, but I am told that I have a minor handle on things. Till then, if you are abandoning the lifestyle, GO. God Bless, Dan Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

I don't jump at a local DZ, but I will be managing a local DZ in VA. I have flown for several DZ's over the last 6 years and have seen what works and is safe and what is not. You point out many valid points, but I don't think that you are objective, let alone balanced. Please stop jumping if you don't feel safe. Please question th ePilot and DZM/DZO if you decide to jump or not to jump. Don't blame them if you do not have the courage to question them about issues that affect your life. This is full time for me. Pardon me if I am a bit passionate about it. There are a lot of scumbags in this business. I will try to make sure that my owner and the DZ I manage is above that. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

WTF.COM, over? I've flown at small DZ's. Perris and Elsinore are NOT small DZ's, by ANY stretch of the imagination, unless you have extensive experience at Ft. Bragg or WFFC. Perris and Elsinore are two of the largest DZ's in the world, 24/7. Anyone can supply services and facilities at tens of thousands of jumps a year. The question addressed out small DZ's. Have you ever BEEN to a small (re: C182) DZ? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Derek, You obviously have some issues. Jumping at another DZ may answer those. You are obviously experienced. Has every DZ you jumped at been like this? Derek: "Ask? Ok, "Do you maintain your aircraft?" "Yes." "You wouldn't lie to me would you?" "No." Great, the aircraft must be well maintained. Ya, right. " As I said, any DZ worth its salt will show you the books, and hopefully educate you as to the ins and outs of FAA certification. You sound like you would not believe anyone no matter what they showed you. Is this because of personal experiences? Is it worth it even discussing this kind of thing with you? His Quote : Becoming an Instructor was the worst mistake I made in skydiving. Want to be guaranteed to be in the middle of DZ politics? Let the DZ pay you one dollar. Derek Been doing this thing for 6 years. Four DZ's. Have somehow managed to avoid politics. What am I doing wrong, Derek? Dan Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Cat, You are into rock climbing, and you question the maintenance of aircraft? Who maintains the rocks? :) Seriously, you should be free to question the DZO/DZM/Pilot about anything in the aircraft's history. Sometimes they are the same person, and you can be sure that they are betting their life on that aircraft. More than the jumpers, in fact, because any pilot worth his rating will stay with the aircraft until all the jumpers have left. And sometimes she/he doesn't even have a rig! If aircraft safety is your question, ask the questions, adn if you don't get the answers you want, go to another DZ. Virginia is far, but I can guarantee you a safe, exciting, smooth ride up, a beautiful ride down, and somd of the best Saturday nights in the US after the jumping stops. Till then, Blue Skies! PS - if you start earning money jumping as a coach/instructor/vidiot, it helps to keep you focused... LtDan Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

No good deed goes unpunished. I am curious which dropzone this was - as a warning to future jump pilots to have no dealings with the place. Can't throw out the monkeys if you don't have an elevator operator... I left a place after working for them for a year and a half, and the owner refused to pay accrued vacation time. This after averaging 60 hours a week, six to seven days a week for the period, and giving them ample notice of my departure. "Use it or lose it buddy" were the owner's words, even though they had refused numerous times to bring in another pilot for the big plane so that I could take some time off. And written guarantees don't mean diddly. A person is only as good as their word. Short of hiring a lawyer, you are probably screwed. But remember that you DID take something from them when you left - exciting flight time, the friendship (I hope) of the people you threw out, and valuable experience in flying, management, and dealing with owners. Move on, and brush the dust of their runway from your feet as you leave. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!