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I hate to be the negative guy, but I like Wings the least. I think they're aesthetically displeasing, but more importantly, I don't like the way the reserve PC just flops out of the container. When I pop my Mirage the reserve PC goes all the way to bridal stretch then drops to the floor. I prefer to jump a rig with a burble-killer like a Mirage. On a positive note though, I like the way Wings will make you a rig sized for any reserve and main (as will Mirage). Jason

I have two Mirage G3 UNISYNs-- I have to disagree that the UNISYN makes it harder to do harness turns. I have absolutely no problem doing harness turns on my G3 with my Xaos. It's just as easy as it has been on ANY other harness/container system I've used: Racers, VIIIs, Reflexs, Javelins.... Why would the addition of the rings inhibit harness input? The jumpers weight is still held by the leg straps, then the lift web, then the risers, then the lines, then the canopy. They didn't add a bungee section on the lift webbing to absorb harness input... just a couple metal rings. Jason

It may be the only measurement, per se, but like you said, it's not the only quality that can be used to predict flight characteristics. The other things you mentioned, like ZP, elliptical, and cross-braced, are qualities that are equally important in predicting the flight characteristics. I'm intentionally not saying performance. I think this has to be argued. Very generally, an increase in wing loading means an increase in "performance," but only to a certain extent. Yes, a person could jump a VX 26 at a wing loading of 8 to 1, and he would fly and turn extremely fast, but would his "performance" increase? It depends on what your definition of performance is. It doesn't seem like the jumpers that have been winning the PPPB meets, and the PSNs, etc. have been jumping canopies loaded at 3.0 and higher. The "performance" they were looking for seemed to be achieved at lower wingloadings. I just think we have to keep in mind that the "performance" envelope is on a curved line that drops off at a certain point when the wing loading is too high, just like when it is not high enough, for any given design. Just a thought. Jason

You've jumped it 7 times and you're having final thoughts? Takes me more like a hundred, but maybe I'm a little slow.... Also, the characteristics of a Stiletto (whichever size you tried), are not necessarily even close the characteristics of other elliptical canopies. What about, "Initial thoughts on going from a PD 190 to Stiletto ###." Or whatever you jumped before.... Jason

No, I guess it has nothing to do with that. But on this page it says, "This forum is being moderated by a Senior Rigger." I guess that's not supposed to convince us that we're getting sound advice.... Hmm. Jason

Nope.... That only applies to the AAD: Sec. 105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems. No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows: (a) The main parachute must have been packed within 120 days before the date of its use of a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute, or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certification parachute rigger. (b) The reserve parachute must have been packed by a certificated parachute rigger-- (1) Within 120 days before the date of its use, if its canopy, shroud, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or similar synthetic fiber or material that is substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, and other fungi, and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or (2) Within 60 days before the date of its use, if it is composed of any amount of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber, or material not specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section. (c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device.

Yeah, I know of quite a few riggers that illegally pencil pack reserves too. I just don't know of many who boast about their violations of FAA regulations in a public forum. Maybe the repack cycle should be longer... but it isn't yet. Wow, you make a great moderator for the Gear and Rigging forum. Jason

"and I'm a senior rigger myself so I only have it done once a year." So you have THEM do it once a year, and YOU pack it the other two times? Why do you give it to them at all? Jason

There's another similar video on www.headdown.net under Movies -> Skydiving (the video with the yellow and orange canopy on the thumbnail). Jason

I almost decided not to post my info up, but after some more thought, I've decided to. My jump number to wingloading ratio is relatively low compared to some of you, but I know that I've approached it right. I got the right instruction and spent a lot of time under canopy to get where I am. In fact, I've done more hop 'n pops in the last 300 jumps than all other types of jumps combined. Just like some jumpers concentrate on RW, and some on freeflying, I've made it a point to concentrate on canopy flight. Well, maybe I don't have to explain... but I'd be happy to discuss it with anyone: Xaos 98 @ 2.3 - 2.4 600 jumps Jason

Kelly, I'm interested in what that safire mod actually is. Can you describe it? Who does it?

I've had mine for 100+ jumps now and I love it. It's a 98 loaded at 2.35. My second one comes in on the 22nd. Toggle turns are smooth, predictable, and whatever speed you want them to be. Hardly any oversteer. Rear riser turns are pretty fast. Not much oversteer without brakes set, and a bit with the brakes still set. Harness turns are easily achieved, and build gradually. They're great for coming out of a front riser carve. A little oversteer with the brakes still set. Front risers are very light, very smooth, and predictable. Corrections using front risers are possible even during the latter half of a 360. Dives very steeply, of course the faster the turn the steeper the dive. It dives for a long time... I can easily take up a 800+ feet with a carving 360, leaving the last few hundred feet for it to come out of the dive naturally. The toggle flare is very powerful and if you don't abuse it, you can get some pretty long swoops. I found that carving it is really fun and easy. I've been able to get 80+ degree carves and still have enough left to put it back over my head, slow it down and slide off the landing. Rear riser flares are pretty touchy and make it really easy to stall. But if you've gauged your dive and recovery arc right, and you're careful with them, you can get some really fast, long swoops. The openings have been awesome. Predictable, gradual, and smooth. I'd compare it to a Spectre opening, except a little faster and the Xaos starts inflating right away. They're generally within 30 degrees of my heading, the worst I've had was a 180 (which has happened maybe twice, probably my fault). I had line twists once (I was trying out a new packer): it just flew strait while I kicked out of them. No problem. It is also really good on long spots when I release the brakes and spread the rear risers. I can't quite float with, say, a Stiletto 135 in brakes, but I'd pull so far ahead of it with my forward speed, that it easily makes up for the (slight) additional loss in altitude. I would like to get a few jumps on some Velocitys and VXs for comparison. Any, that's JMHO. Jason

Yeah, the brown nosing comment was just a joke, hope you took it that way. But to reply to your last post.... Does EVERYONE know my ins and outs? No. Am I therefore seeking the advice of only one coach? Most definitely not. I still seek the advice of as many competant individuals as I possibly can. I agree with you in that I do tend to seek advice from the ones that are doing the things that I want to be able to do, but I have yet to find any single person that has ALL the traits that I want to emulate. Jason

Hey rhino, what's that on your nose? A couple things about your last post annoy me: First, no single person's word should be followed "as the law." It doesn't matter how many jumps they have or how talented they are. Everyone has to learn from his/her own perspective, hopefully drawing from a _large_ number of resources. Secondly, the most talented people are not *necessarily* the best teachers, and vice versa. Though I'm not talking about anyone in particular in this forum, since I don't know most of you. So sure, listen to Hook, but don't limit yourself to listening to him just because you think he's the best. That's kinda narrow minded, don't you think? Jason

To answer the original question: I jump a Mirage G3 M3X with a Xaos-21 98 and a PD160R. My exit weight is 235, so I didn't want to play around with a small reserve. I think the chance of having two canopies out is small, and is usually the jumper's own fault anyway, e.g. low pull, low spinnup, low.... Unless it's a Cypres firing under canopy, which is rare, at best. So as long as you keep your altitude awareness about you, you'll probably never have to deal with two out. And if you do find yourself in a low pull situation, maybe you shouldn't go for the main at all... why chance it? Having a decent sized reserve is a requirement for me. But $s!+ happens, and you may find yourself dealing with two out. As far as looks go, I think it looks better than other new containers look even with similarly sized canopies. It also has that small container look, especially for a bigger guy. When I tell people that I have a PD160R in there, they hardly believe it. As far as rigging goes, my rigger said it was quite easy to pack and that the 160 fit perfectly. Jason

Just to clarify, I was talking about the original post...

I don't think that's correct. Each set of risers is connected to the harness at a single point, preventing independent movement of the front and rear risers solely by harness input. I think that when you shift your weight to one side of the harness, you more heavily load that side of the canopy, and very slightly distort the airfoil shape, causing a turn to that side. Anybody agree or disagree?

I'm anxious to see the results of those tests.... I'm jumping a Xaos-21 98 and a PD160R. I justify this with the following logic: The chance of having two canopies out is lower than the chance of simply having to use the reserve for its thoroughly tested "conventional" use. So I picked a reserve that will withstand a terminal opening with my 235 lb. exit weight, rather than get a PD106R because it "might" fly more compatibly with my Xaos-21 98. I would rather take my chances with two inflated, yet possibly incompatible, canopies rather than HOPE that my 106 will withstand terminal opening shock (a terminal reserve opening is more likely to happen anyway, I think...). p.s. My container is a Mirage G3 M3X-- and it looks great. Jason