obelixtim

This poll shows otherwise. The "poll" is asking skydivers, not whuffos. And? Skydivers don't normally look at the USPA website to find a place to learn to skydive. Also, it is not limited to "new" people in the sport. I guy that has been jumping 45 years 'knows' more than a guy that has yet to get a license. But I think you knew that. Again, strawman from you. Is this the best you are going to do? If so, don't expect me to continue to play your game. Lol, Ron I didn't even make an argument, and I'm not misrepresenting your stance. There could be no strawman. I asked you a follow up question and I have another question. Where does the illusion of safety come from? I mean you moved the goalposts from "guaranteeing that a DZ is safe" to "giving the illusion that its safe" so I am just trying to clarify your stance. Its really not that difficult to anyone with half a functioning brain. Anyone who knows nothing about skydiving, researching options, would naturally assume that an operation belonging to a national organisation, would by so doing, be compliant with any rules or protocols that organisation promulgates. Especially when it has US as part of its title. Most national organisations have some sort of code of conduct. Any operation not a member of USPA, would prolly be regarded as a cowboy outfit. Why would you not be a member unless you didn't want to follow the rules? That would be the perception of most people. Most skydivers would know differently. Hence the poll results. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He never said anything of the sort. You probably missed all the deleted comments from the original incident thread. He said that multiple times. Yeah, I did miss quite a few. Its annoying when threads are wrecked like that. Generally I give up on those discussions when that happens, because there is no point in them when context is destroyed like that. Its no longer a discussion. Defeats the purpose really. Apparently Ron really, really, really hates the USPA. I doubt that very much. USPA is too toothless to engender that sort of emotion. Disappointed might be more accurate, and in that, I'm sure he's not alone. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He never said anything of the sort. You probably missed all the deleted comments from the original incident thread. He said that multiple times. Yeah, I did miss quite a few. Its annoying when threads are wrecked like that. Generally I give up on those discussions when that happens, because there is no point in them when context is destroyed like that. Its no longer a discussion. Defeats the purpose really. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I wonder: I doubt that USPA sanctioned has much of any meaning to whuffos signing up for Tandems or even a first jump course. I have to admit that, when I did my tandems decades ago, I had no idea what USPA was. Looking back, and knowing more about the complexity of tandem systems, I wonder what made me trust that this was all ok. But even a few years ago, when I signed up for the first jump course I knew nothing about USPA and member dropzones. I found that out as I progressed towards my A License and I'm pretty sure (and have anecdotal evidence) that this is so for most jumpers. If being a member dropzone was such a selling-point for whuffos it would be big on all the tandem ads. It isn't. If there is a safety advantage, I believe it's more for us regular jumpers, and in regards to whuffos, it's an advantage to us if there are less accidents--because it helps the public perception of the sport. So if you polled the whuffos my guess is the most common answer would be: "what the heck is a USPA sanctioned DZ?" I would expect the pollster would explain who/what USPA stands for in their questionnaire. Something like: "Would you prefer, if given a choice, to jump at a dropzone sanctioned by the US Parachute Association, or at one that is not so sanctioned/ independent from USPA?" Simple Yes or No answer required. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He never said anything of the sort. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

How could you be so naïve? Mods have their own set of rules. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I'm saying his points aren't valid period. I don't even know who he was when I criticized his first point and still don't know who he is. Frankly, I don't care who he is because it's irrelevant. Never in my short skydiving career have I ever assumed that the USPA promised that the member DZ were guaranteed safe. That's an outrageous claim. All the group member agreement says is what they should do. No one can guarantee safety when it comes to skydiving. However, a DZ that is "endorsed" by USPA has an implied (to the unwashed public anyway) code of practice/set of standards that creates an impression (whether that is true or not) that a USPA DZ operates to a higher standard than others that are not USPA members. I wager if you polled 100 whuffos whether they would prefer to jump at a USPA sanctioned DZ or a non USPA DZ, if costs were equal, a large percentage would opt for the USPA option. The reality, of course, is USPA is so hands off, such perceptions are virtually worthless. I think Ron, not unreasonably, expects better. In this particular case, There isn't very much USPA could do or say anyway. Its impossible to legislate for someones state of mind. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Not replying to you in particular, but: Post numbers, or whether a person has quit the sport and given up ratings does not mean he is not entitled to an opinion. Disagreeing with a pov is OK, but I am seeing Ron being told his opinion doesn't count any more, or his points are no longer valid. Which to me, seems to be a personal attack on his credibility, and the validity of his points. Which, as we are often reminded, is a no no. But which seems to be OK in selected cases. DZ.com needs to make a rule that you have to be a current jumper to contribute, otherwise go elsewhere. Because that's what DZ.com is coming to. Its no wonder that many experienced jumpers with useful opinions to the skydiving community have quit this site. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

BV is going to have field day with his axe on this thread... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

+1. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Like chucking a student out on an unmodified roundie, or calculating the exit point for a high altitude cross country jump, its all about the wind. Not really that difficult with experience and raw animal cunning. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

That guy is in trouble if the vegan rights brigade get hold of him.... I don't feel like watching the entire video but I highly doubt he dropped any sort of animal from 45 feet. Cruelty to innocent, thinking, feeling watermelons. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

That guy is in trouble if the vegan rights brigade get hold of him.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

About as well as a melon What sort of melon? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Just getting out of the basket itself would be a hassle for a tandem. For a one off, maybe, but commercial? Nah. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I know it goes against the grain, but if USPA, and its members become aware of serious deficiencies/violations, should they not become whistle blowers to FAA? Perhaps after a warning to the particular operation to clean up its act first. Ultimately people are responsible for their own safety, and of course, can choose to walk away from a particular place, but that leaves the problem in place, and risks the lives of others. If there is an incident that then costs the lives of others, people need to examine their own conscience as to whether they should have spoken up when they knew there was a problem. They need to accept some of the responsibility in such a case, IMO. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

At least one of the mods is rather over sensitive about things, and has had a humour bypass to boot. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I have never done a Tandem and my first jump was 20 years ago in Germany. It was a static line (german: Automatensprung) just for fun. A year later i startet my static line progression (german: konventionelle Ausbildung). There a still plenty of places that offer static line in Germany. The faster way to learn to skydive is AFF though. That point is debateable. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

If you can't find a DZ in Germany that will train you to do static line jumps, ( I find that hard to believe), go to Texel in Holland. I've seen quite a few Germans taking their courses. Static line was the only option to skydive in the past. Its much cheaper than AFF, and is a perfectly good way to learn to skydive. I've had SL students graduating to FF in a weekend, and going to 12000 solo within 10 jumps total. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Where's my sugar? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Yep.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I'm curious about the non-lethal mousetraps. So it works and I now have an angry/scared mouse in a box - what am I going to do with that? I also live in London, so where is this wilderness that I am to release it, so that it lives out its days with its mouse friends? Sell it on eBay? London is a bit of a jungle anyway, you must be able to find a spot within a couple of blocks. Plenty of places I could think of within a few blocks of where I lived in NW London, or N London. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

In some parts, if you do that, you'll wake up to find your engine has gone..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I have a cunning plan...…...so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel. (apols to Blackadder) Easy to catch. (If you don't like traps that squish the mouse, or using poison baits) Set up a trap using a cup/mug and a coin. Smear some peanut butter in the bottom of the cup, then balance the cup on the edge of the coin in a cupboard or somewhere where you know he frequents. Mouse goes to get at the peanut butter, touches the inside of the cup and it will fall, trapping him under it. Now you have a live mouse under the cup. Slide something flat under it, and pick it up, then you can do what you like with it..... Release into the wild, or your nosey neighbours house, or kill it by drowning in a bucket of water. Don't release it in front of the cat.....my cat will just watch as the mouse leaves the scene at speed. I caught four of the buggers within half an hour one time like that, and I've caught quite a few since. My girlfriend won't let me kill them, so I have to take them on a journey to a galaxy far far away and release them. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Standard might be a better option to consider, if later on you want to sell the rig and upgrade to something else. The market for a longer rig might be a bit more limited. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....