skr

thanks winsor it's a nice thing to do for people skr

>You draft up the tenets of criteria for each license and I'll >puff it up in USPA BSR lingo for submission. Aaaahhhhh! No! Wait! Please use plain English! I'm convinced that that SIM Sludge formulation is the main reason people don't read the SIM. Every time I try, I start feeling sick about 3 or 4 inches into it and give up. I found out at the last board meeting that USPA buys its SIM Sludge sentences from the same company that manufactures the FAR Sludge. The FAA buys it by the ascii ton and USPA buys it in smaller lots, but it's the same stuff. Skr

I am really glad you guys are making this effort and I want to make a couple (meta) points: First is that in order to get any of this to happen at the USPA level the members of the safety and training committee need to get lots of email with people's ideas. That's not headquarters safety and training (Jim Crouch & Kevin Gibson) but the board members: Mike Perry, Mike Mullins, Jan Meyer, Jesse Farrington, Sherry Butcher and DJan Stewart. And you need to get your regional directors to ask Mike Perry to put it on the safety and training agenda for the next board meeting. Second is that at the last board meeting there was a handout from Kevin Gibson on a possible draft page for the next SIM on this very topic and you can ask your regional director person for a copy so you can see what they're thinking and give feedback (to the safety and training committee). Third (my soapbox, I mean contribution to this effort) is that we need to create the social view that serious downsizing and swooping are specialized activities. Serious downsizing is not the default path. Normal jumpers jump gentler canopies suitable for family use. People who want to get into this specialized activity get further training on how to do it. The problem is not the accomplished napkin swooper making 100 meter surfs, it's the herds of people blindly imitating them because serious downsizing and swooping are currently presented as the normal progression. Fourth is that it would really help if DZO's and gear manufacturers and dealers would get behind this effort. I don't know how to do that, but I'm sure it's true. So thanks again for all the effort you guys are putting out. I don't know why it's so hard to get something like this into existance but that's how it is. The good news is that eventually it changes and then all the new people stand around and wonder how they could have been so stupid in the old days. Skr

I wrote one answer to your questions and put it at http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/c_wings_level.html It's about half way down in the article. Skr

about 3800 jumps : not sure how many reserves once in the 60's i was experimenting with how to stack two spring loaded pilot chutes and gave myself a total in 1975 i had a real malfunction but the chute was experimental so that was also kind of self induced in 2000 or so i had a malfunction on a wingsuit but there was a long story leading up to it so i'm not sure that counts either not long after that i opened in a hard turn. in hindsight i think i pulled one of the toggles loose grabbing risers on opening, but i couldn't figure it out at the time and so cutaway also when piggy backs came out i did about 20 jumps just cutting away and jumping intentional streamers and stuff the one time i did have a real malfunction which, in hindsight, i should have cutaway, i didn't, and, after a long story landed in a serious turn doing about 60-80 mph downward, but i layed out flat and eventually walked away from it so all in all i'm not sure skr

I caught one this weekend, a new person I was jumping with. We had been through gear checks on enough jumps that I thought they had it, so I told them "OK, you're on your own, I'm not even going to look.". But I surreptitiously did anyway, and shit! They're chest strap was just looped through the friction buckle and then through the elastic keeper! How could they do it right several times in a row and then do it wrong? I'm wondering about heat, dehydration and tiredness. I caught one last year that I'm pretty sure was from that. At about 10,000 ft a guy with a couple hundred jumps was sitting there with this puzzled look on his face pulling his chest strap back and forth through the friction buckle, wondering why it wasn't staying in place. I reached over and helped him fix it. In hindsight if he was too wasted to figure it out he probably shouldn't have gone and if I was too wasted to think of that I probably shouldn't have gone either. But, you know, we're skydivers, so we went. Skr

Hi Derek - I'm responding to your post because it is at the end of the thread, this isn't aimed at you. I've been following these threads, but I can't sort out what I think, it seems like a very complex issue. For one thing ignorant downsizing for swooping and/or fashion is a separate issue from the canopy skills needed by all jumpers, and both areas need a lot of attention. The good news is that maybe the number of people thinking about this is reaching some kind of critical mass. I hope USPA takes what you guys have been saying and comes up with some possible guidelines and puts them in Parachutist for field testing and feedback. Something this complicated needs testing and feedback before it even becomes a recommendation. DJan tells me that she has gotten 6 or 7 emails on this. I guess that's about average. I remember when the first version of the ISP came out for comment a few years ago. It was about 35 lbs of SIM Sludge and it was a terrible experience plowing through it, but after putting it off for a couple months, I bit the bullet and sent a long reply back to the S & T committee. They used quite a bit of it. I found out later that 11 other people had sent something in. I know that there were a hell of a lot more than 12 people pissing and moaning about it after it came out. So if you guys want to make a difference send your stuff in before it gets to the SIM Sludge stage :-) :-) One thing I agree with John on is that I'm not sure we have delved deeply enough into root causes. All the death and injury is a symptom, and ignorant downsizing is a link in the chain, but why are people doing this? What's the cool image the skydiving world is presenting to the young and restless mostly male skydiver? Is it the unbearably cool guy on the cover of the last Parachutist, swooping across the lily covered pond, hands casually draped in the toggles, headed toward the crowd of bikini clad Victoria's Secret models eagerly awaiting his arrival on the far shore? One of my early reactions was the old Sport Death model. Jumpers at the Gulch got tired of people persistantly doing stupid stuff and getting killed and they started calling them on it. So it would be a campaign something like: "Hey, kid, swooping is cool, but if you go out and downsize before you're ready, and splatter your ass across my landscape, we won't be shedding any tears. We'll piss on your grave and laugh at your memory." But really, we all know that reward works better than punishment, so we need to create the image that the people who are looked up to are the ones who went about downsizing and swooping in this step by step, training course after training course manner that will eventually emerge. Other activities have the concept of starting at the beginner level and working your way toward the higher levels. In my ideal universe it would be the most accomplished swoopers creating this mental framework, but it's probably up to USPA to start the ball rolling. Skr

mjosparky: >I not only think USPA should take a long hard look at you proposals sducoach: >Please have DJan take this with her to the BOD meeting. You guys are preaching to the choir (who appreciates it :-) :-) but if you think USPA should look into this approach, please tell it to the safety and training committee directly. sducoach: >Did this come to you at night in a dream, or ... No, it's just something I've been proposing for a pretty long time. This time it was sparked a few months ago by hearing that they were aligning the USPA licenses with the FAI ones. Skr

Please tell Joe that Skratch says hi from Colorado. Skr

There is a write up of how 4 way came into being at http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/profile_profile.html It's about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way down. Search for "1969" if you don't want to scan through the first part of the interview. The short answer is that I made it up, because as people started using RW as a medium for competition, the atmosphere started changing from freedom and exploration to rigid formats and grim, white knuckle skydiving. I thought that changing the form of the activity would break us out of that trend. I was wrong. You can see the freeflyers repeating that old history word for word and move for move. It started out free, but now they are using words like "compulsory moves". They should probably start telling the truth and change the name to "Forced Flying". Freedom is not a body position. It's not a maneuver either. I guess I'm still disgruntled that people could take something so free and beautiful and turn it into assembly line drudgery. I thought I had let all that go but evidently not :-) :-) I do mostly jump with students these days because they are closer to the original vibes that I got from skydiving. Skr

>I am asking because that has to be a very lucky man. There could well be some luck and karma involved. I was involved in some of his adventures in the 70's. What I saw was vision, a real talent for pulling together and juggling a zillion different threads and ingredients, and a truly unbelievable amount of work. He told me once during that time that he hadn't spent more than 10 days in one place in several years. He was always zooming around the world arranging ingredients and possibilities. Our in joke in those days was the free helicopters. He would look at us and say "Trust me. All you have to do is spend your life savings and travel here and there and there will be some free helicopters.". And we would always fall for it. If the helicopters fell through he would always come up with some equally good ploy. Skr

Well, that was a very nice thing to say any way you spell it :-) It's been hard to get my brain into jump story mode with all the people dying, and trying to figure out what I think about students and canopy training, and other assorted turmoil. Skr

For me it wasn't so much the exams as the discrepancy between the life I was seeing on the weekends at Elsinore and the life I was seeing during the week in the math department at Caltech. So dropped out, got a job at JPL, and made 900 jumps in the next 3 years :-) :-) That was 1965. So now I have no money, a lot of jump stories, and have helped a lot of people learn to skydive, which is a better outcome than being a grumpy old math professor inflicting my views on a bunch of hapless math students. Skr

3750 jumps in 40 years. I finally have more jumps on squares than on rounds. Skr

We just got a phone call. This is hard to accept. I've known Roger since he was a skinny young guy with a couple hundred jumps, and a lot of ideas and energy. I wore that half circle freak brother patch on the pop top of my SST for years. This is hard to take. Skratch

>Say hi to Skratch! :-) I haven't really disappeared, I just got sidetracked for a few days, and now I'm only 4 1/2 zillion posts behind. Skr

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3046791.stm

>all i could find was posts on exit separation, >not tracking and group separation. They are related topics. If you start at the bottom end with how much separation you want from other jumpers while opening and work backwards to exit separation - how much separation from people in your group and from people in the adjacent groups - how far do you need to track - how far do the canopies of one group fly while the next group is still in freefall you get an estimate of how much exit separation you need on top to accomplish this. When I first ran into this question I thought it was about 1000 ft, but that was based on round canopy intuition. Squares cover a lot of ground, so now I think small groups, 3-5, need more like 1500 ft, and groups of 8 or 10 need more like 2000 ft. Some people say you can't tell when you've covered 1500 ft across the ground, but I've taught many people to do it. Lots of people have put effort into figuring this out. I collected some writings and put them up at the bottom of http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/ We started doing more than one group per pass in the 70's so all this should have been worked out about 25 years ago. But it wasn't. Skr

> Wow, if it came from anyone else, I would have said > photoshopped, Maybe you're thinking of this - courtesy of Robert Yoder: http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/fastluscombe.html Skr

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030504.html (edited to make it clicky)

>Look out Djan....................... >I read a "family fight" in the making!! :-) :-) It's taken many years but we are actually starting to learn to talk to each other (and understand some of it). She's from some other galaxy, you know, although from her point of view she's the normal one in the family, which just goes to show the magnitude of the situation. Some day we are going to write a book, maybe even the same book. Skr

>What so bad about hitting a tree? > >You're wearing a helmet, slap your hands over >your jugulars and prepare to hug the tree :-) :-) Trees aren't the big fluffy marshmellows they look like when you're up above them. Trees are better than power lines, and low hooks, and most buildings, and maybe probably water, but thinking ahead and making decisions up high is better. I've got 8 tree landings, one of them at night. Basically once you hit the tree you lose all control and tumble ass over tea kettle until you come to some kind of a stop. Each kind of tree is different. Sometimes your chute hangs up and you have the hassle of getting down and getting your chute down. Remember to carry a whistle so people can find you and help out. Sometimes you hit the tree, your chute collapses and you fall out. The trunk and limbs are hard and sometimes have sharp pointy things to run into. Trees are good for jump stories, but learning flat, braked turns and thinking ahead up high are good too. Skr

>After advise from an experienced person >I will also start to practice low hook turns Wait!! Don't do that!! People are talking about low flat turns, also known as braked turns, not hook turns. http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/c_wings_level.html has a discussion about toggle technique and large scale strategy - thinking ahead, watching other canopies. Skr

I agree with Mustard except I would say to delta out of a spin instead of track. "Track" is a very stiff, reverse arch kind of position, whereas "delta" is a relaxed, pelvis and chest down, arms and legs swept back kind of position. Many people have used this trick over the years. Be sure and talk to your jumpmasters about this before you do it. You don't want to scare them by suddenly diving away :-) :-) Once you have a way out of the spin you will be more relaxed and probably won't go into a spin in the first place. Skr

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030422.html