Stiletto opening and spiraling

[mfgobbi 0]

I am just switching from a sabre 150 to a stiletto 135 (only 10 jumps so far). My stiletto was bought used with about 400 jumps and is in overall good condition. My problem is that in 6 out of the 10 opennings, it started turning left in a spiral and wouldn't stop until I released the toggles and stopped it. Then it flies normaly at all ranges from full glide to deep brakes. The thing is that the turns usualy start with all cells aparently completely inflated.

Is this normal?

I was told that at that point the canopy is still in the pressurization opening stage. Should I just learn to fly the opening to deal with it?
Any thoughts will be appreciated. BTW, I never had that kind of problem with the sabre.

[skybytch 259]

Have a rigger check the line trim - if it's the original line set it's likely they are way out of trim.

Have someone video you opening. The turn could also be caused by asymetrical body position as you pull.

[AggieDave 6]

Could be a few things. First I would think of body position on opening, if you're not semetrical in the harness, you will turn on opening. If you're not flying the opening, then you might get a turn as well.

Also, check the line trim of the canopy, you never know.

You're not stuffing the nose of the Stiletto are you? That'll screw up the openings almost every single time.

Oh, you haven't heard about it on a Sabre1, since a Sabre1 isn't elliptical, if it opens off heading, it opens off heading, it doesn't want to keep turning.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[councilman24 36]

Just because a Sabre is rectangle doesn't keep it from doing the same thing. I had a Sabre 190 that opened in a spin 90% of the time. Didn't stop until I released the brakes. Did it from day one. PD agrred it had a problem, spent 6-8 weeks trying to fix it, couldn't and eventually sold me a new canopy cheap.

That one was just a lemon. This may be opening position, etc as noted above, but it could be a lemon too.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[AggieDave 6]

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Just because a Sabre is rectangle doesn't keep it from doing the same thing

Yeah, you're right. I think you know what I was trying to say, just didn't come out exactly right.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[councilman24 36]

I know what your trying to say.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[LouDiamond 1]

I experienced the same problems when I started jumping my Stiletto. Do all of the afore mentioned things. I did find that I had to be very still during opening to avoid the spins but one quick and easy way that woks for me that I still use is to roll the nose 4 and 4(3 folds) leaving the center cell alone and then just drop the nose and flake as usual. It has helped quite a bit. You didn't mention if you are grabbing the rear risers to counter the spin prior to releasing the brakes. If your not doing that then I suggest you give that a try to counter the spin as soon as possible.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[davelepka 4]

Check that your leg straps are thightened evenly.

Use your rear riser to correct your heading during or just after your opening. Leave your brakes stowed untill you are ready for them (slider collapsed, etc).

Lean into the opposite (right) MLW with your shoulder to help counter the turn after opening.

Try intentionally weighting the right side of the harness during the snivel (if the turn is ALWAYS to the left) to see if that helps. If so, have an experienced Stiletto jumper try it to see if it's you or the canopy. Make sure to use the same pack job, and if they are getting good results (or even a variation in direction) it's your problem, not the canopy.

For the most part, get used to it. Get on those back risers ASAP and control your parachute. You have traded off level flight stability for increased performance (good trade, by the way).

[rigging65 0]

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My stiletto was bought used with about 400 jumps and is in overall good condition.

With this many jumps, I'll almost guarantee you that the lines are out of trim by a considerable amount. It should probably be relined...whether this will fix your spinning problem remains to be seen, but it very well might and it certainly won't hurt!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[Kirils 1]

What you are experiencing is typical of a new eliptical jumper. Before pulling...STOP and pause to assure you are in a stable position. Pull and lookup, and using hip input, fly the canopy in an on-heading opening. Good Luck! Most of us flying elipticals have had the same problem.

There are some eliptical canopies out there that seem to have resolved this opening problem, check out the Xaos, Velocity and A-max.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[PhreeZone 15]

>There are some eliptical canopies out there that seem to have resolved this opening problem, check out the Xaos, Velocity and A-max.

All of those are the max proformance canopies on the market and are not intended for new, intermediate or even the majority of the jumpers out there. They also all have less taper angle to them then what a lot of other elliptical canopies have. The Velocity has a strighter leading edge then what a Crossfire has for instance. The straighter the leading edge, the more likely it is to open with out spinning.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Kirils 1]

Very true! I have owned and jumped 3 heatwaves and a Spinetto. There was always an expectation of a spin or at least an off-heading opening. The newer canopy designs eliminate that stress. Here's to science!

[aneblett 0]

hmmm...

mine only does that when I have a brake release prematurely... it doesn't happen too often but when it does the toggle can still be in the keeper. Have you eliminated this possiblility?

Adrian

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[mfgobbi 0]

Thanks to all that responded. As I said I only have 10 jumps with this canopy. I will start off having my canopy, lines, and harness checked, then making sure my body position is ok during opening; it has to be one of these. Even if I need 20 more jumps to learn to fly the openings I think it's worth it. I have had one too many hard opening with the sabre that almost broke my ribs (couldn't jump for a month). I am not going bacck. Thanks again.

[kallend 1,623]

Jumping a Stiletto is very good motivation for practicing your tracking.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

My problem is that in 6 out of the 10 opennings, it started turning left in a spiral and wouldn't stop until I released the toggles and stopped it.

I was told that at that point the canopy is still in the pressurization opening stage. Should I just learn to fly the opening to deal with it?

If you're going to jump elliptical canopies, you need to be level with the horizon when you open (don't look over a shoulder at the deployment), stay relaxed, fly through the opening, and get on the risers immediately if things don't feel right.

Failure to do all of these things will lead to a high number of spinning malfunctions - I chopped 4 in a couple hundred jumps before I got in touch with my elliptical openings.

Your Stiletto may be out of trim, although if it flies straight with the brakes pulled down so the catseyes are even with the keeper rings it's probably you.

Squares are fairly insensitive to all this, which makes them nice choices for things like wing suit flying.

[murrays 0]

Last year, I was having the same sort of openings that you describe on a Stiletto 135 that I started jumping. Over the winter, I had it relined and this year...no problem. A few 90 degree turns but no spinning openings with the canopy fully open.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[mfgobbi 0]

Hi all. I am the original poster of this thread. This weekend I made 3 jumps, talked to a number of people, had my canopy jumped and inspected. This is what: I was able to control the spinning after opening all three times by following the recommendations on the replies to my post. Most problems were resolved by a good body position during opening. The other thing is that I had different kinds of rubber bands on my bag, including regular bands, colored ones and tube stoes. According to a rigger friend who jumped it, this was causing non-symmetrical openings and possibly causing line twists and off-heading openings. It´s been all taken care of now. I again want to thank everyone who contributed by posting your ideas.

M. Gobbi

• Quote

[FrogNog 1]

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The other thing is that I had different kinds of rubber bands on my bag, including regular bands, colored ones and tube stoes.

Oh, that's going on my list of fun stuff to try for later.

-- My rigger says that a couple of line twists just enhances the experience.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Dos 2]

Thanks for the info. I didn't think about that. I just downsized from my Stiletto 150 to a 135 one and had great openings then a 360° turn after complete deployement (which I didn't have with the 150 in my previous rig).

The new rig has a D-bag with almost all sorts of stows on it too. I'll replace them all and try it next weekend. (will have the line trim inspected too)