New Mass 25 way wingsuit record.

[DSE 3]

Congrats to the wingsuit folks at the Pepperell boogie; they put up the Massachusetts state record today.
It's for Taya or Justin to post the photo, but the group did very nicely; this photo shows Taya telling the group that they've just achieved the record, fitting the grid.
Kudos to all involved.

[DSE 3]

Here's a poor shot I got of Justin exiting the CASA as I'm sitting in the copilotseat of the Otter.

[parachutist 1]

Some of us are on the West coast & want to see this formation flying. Tell Scotty to put down the Corona for 5 mins and post some vids!!!! =]

[Buried 0]

hmm..if that's the wingsuit record picture, that's a regression of 'good' wingsuit formation. I mean the person to the left of Sobe (two back from the base) wasn't in his slot according to our older 'unofficial' standards. Same thing goes with the person in the front two back as well as four back from the base on the right side. (keep in mind the picture is shot from underneath). I can think of the countless pictures from the earlier years that were 4x better.

(steps off soap box)

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[yuri_base 1]

If I only could turn shit into diamonds just like that...

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[kallend 1,635]

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hmm..if that's the wingsuit record picture, that's a regression of 'good' wingsuit formation. I mean the person to the left of Sobe (two back from the base) wasn't in his slot according to our older 'unofficial' standards. Same thing goes with the person in the front two back as well as four back from the base on the right side. (keep in mind the picture is shot from underneath). I can think of the countless pictures from the earlier years that were 4x better.

(steps off soap box)

What were the "unofficial standards" exactly? The whole point of official standards is that everyone understands what they are.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bdrake529 0]

Where is the picture you're referring to (I really want to see it)? Or were you just zooming in really close on the pic of Taya with a monitor to her right?

"I can think of the countless pictures from the earlier years that were 4x better."

Really? I was under the impression that the first "perfect" 16-way was either late 2007 or early 2008. When were people cranking 25-ways that looked "4x better" earlier than that? Can you provide links to those "countless" pictures?

Brian Drake

[kallend 1,635]

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If I only could turn shit into diamonds just like that...

I bet those grapes are sour.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bodypilot1 0]

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I was under the impression that the first "perfect" 16-way was either late 2007 or early 2008.

Here you go WestCoast Wingsuits Event, July 2008 Worlds First/Largest Slot Perfect Formation

Congrats to the Mass 25way!

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[SuperGirl 0]

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hmm..if that's the wingsuit record picture, that's a regression of 'good' wingsuit formation. I mean the person to the left of Sobe (two back from the base) wasn't in his slot according to our older 'unofficial' standards.

I'll leave it to the organizers to post the pictures and discuss what's going on, but one thing I want to point out is that when you zoom into the tiny pic that DSE posted you don't really see some wingsuits that are mostly white on the front as they seem to blend in kinda well with the bright sky behind. You need a few more pixels to see exactly what's going on in there.

[michalm21 0]

This is also not the submitted record jump. The photo in Spot's pic looks like it was from the 2nd jump of the day where the record was set, but as we were not satisfied, we went again and did it better.

[stoney3434 0]

I don't really ( concptually and flying) "get into" the triangles,squares,pentagons and stuff that can be moved around to "judge" a formation ( but Ilove to see and feel "a sense of symmetry and connection in the sky or in a picture,...

To me ,..this pic posted by Ed is indeed "almost perfect "visually" ( except for 4th row back ,3rd from left being a couple feet back) Anyway, I "think" I witnessed a more visually perfect 16 way slot specific diamond at F&D Zhills late March/early April 2007,... led by Scott Bland,.....and the photo made it onto Parachutist.

Later that year I saw a DZ.com picturre posted by Zunn from France with a visually perfect formation of 12 to 16,

It sems ( perhaps only to me) that since everyone is building on and following a stable heading "base" flyer like Scott B, Jeff, Justin or Purple Mike,... and the two best positioned flyers "should be" right next to and behind that "base",... that whatever measurement "tool" is being used to judge a formation should have the base flyer's body either dead center or "damn near" the center of the leading box, triangle , circle or? and the three immediately adjacent to the base ( both sides and behind ) also damn near in the center of their boxes, tiangles or ???

"THAT" four man front diamond seems ( perhaps only to me) to be the front of any really "visually eye catching, symetrically pleasing formation and the core essence from which a then "respectable" visually perfect and "measured perfect" formation can be judged. (if we must judge to be happy)

Moving the "measurement tool gid" all around to get the one best "fit",... even if it puts the base off tp one side or well forward or behind in whatever geometric shape is being used,.... just seems (to me) "wrong somehow" and )for me) it actaully seems to "skew" the formation's essence of symmetry and opens any conclusions of judging to skeptics and potential detractor's comments. ( that then seems to lemd itself to pushing some flyers apart rather then pulling flyers together)

I enjoyed watching the flyers at this Casa Boogie "playing" as well as flying for measurements. Fun, colllective joy and personal satisfaction can never be put into a box or measured by a grid.

Please start posting all the pictures of the rabbit chases, rodeos. batton passing and the perfect clouds we "didn't " chase.....

Life is what happens while we are making other plans.

[DSE 3]

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This is also not the submitted record jump. The photo in Spot's pic looks like it was from the 2nd jump of the day where the record was set, but as we were not satisfied, we went again and did it better.

This is correct. There was no "formal" announcement of the second jump being better than the first jump, so there was no opportunity for a "group" pic with Taya or Scott saying "we got it." Scott's plea for a better example was very inspirational, and obviously worked, because although the first jump was technically there, the second jump was significantly better.
I wished the formation hasn't been so deep into the sun, because from the ground, it's just a few mottled dots in an overblown sky. Can we make it a rule that record jumps can only be done in the early a.m. or late afternoon?

[kallend 1,635]

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This is also not the submitted record jump. The photo in Spot's pic looks like it was from the 2nd jump of the day where the record was set, but as we were not satisfied, we went again and did it better.

This is correct. There was no "formal" announcement of the second jump being better than the first jump, so there was no opportunity for a "group" pic with Taya or Scott saying "we got it." Scott's plea for a better example was very inspirational, and obviously worked, because although the first jump was technically there, the second jump was significantly better.
I wished the formation hasn't been so deep into the sun, because from the ground, it's just a few mottled dots in an overblown sky. Can we make it a rule that record jumps can only be done in the early a.m. or late afternoon?

In Chicago we did a 28 way that just fit the grid but didn't look very pretty, so the organizers chose to submit the 25 way instead (and we did 2 points on that jump, both of which fit the grid and looked pretty too).

However, "pretty" isn't an objective criterion for judging a record. Fitting a pre-defined grid is.

The MA group did a fine job - congrats.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[stoney3434 0]

John,...is that the 25 way from Chicago on your DZ.com profile??? It "looks pretty", symetrical and damn near "perfect" !... wherever it was,...well done !

Life is what happens while we are making other plans.

[Taz 0]

Thank you and congratulations to everyone involved in setting the Massachusetts state wingsuit record this past weekend. The record holders are (in order of the diamond as it would be viewed from above, top to bottom, left to right):

Justin Shorb (base)
Steve Harrington
Sean "Monkey" Horton
Paul Cain
Purple Mike
Elana Cain
Taya
Chris Gray
Scott Callentine
Rick Hough
Greg Drogaline
Simon Repton
Lurch
Scott Gray
Michal
Brian Barnhart
Andreea Olea
Jason Carter
Joe Rodriguez
Ralph Armstrong
Dan Mayer
Reed Searle
Ariel McManus
Dave Gerstein
Justin Pabis

You all flew like rock stars in the extreme heat and humidity we had on Saturday. I am very proud of what we accomplished in one day of attempts: 3 formation loads with an Otter and a Casa. FAI judge Marylou Laughlin and National judge James Rees were also highly impressed, as evidenced by their signatures on the certification form I am about to send to USPA HQ.

Photo by Jeff Nebelkopf, taken backflying under the formation.

Blue Skies, -T

It's the Year of the Dragon.

[kallend 1,635]

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John,...is that the 25 way from Chicago on your DZ.com profile??? It "looks pretty", symetrical and damn near "perfect" !... wherever it was,...well done !

That's it, and it was really pretty. The hi-res version hasn't been approved for release yet. Taz may know more.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[repcool 2]

I had a blast meeting and flying with everyone, the record is just a nice big bonus out of the whole thing. Thanks all, especially to the organizers.

Simon

[Buried 0]

Now that's a much nicer looking formation! Congrats guys. Though, I do hope the fall rates were slower than 80 this time

Taya - since the one I commented on is not being used for submission could you please send me a copy of that first formation for personal use?

Brian -there have been many more solid formations or main parts of larger formations that have looked great (pictures in hand) - take the 35 way from the record. that was nice. "4x" was a random quantifier to prove a point and provoke discussion.

I don't discount a use of a grid for judging purposes, but I think Stoney said it close to how I and other who aren't as vocal feel - "Moving the "measurement tool gid" all around to get the one best "fit",... even if it puts the base off tp one side or well forward or behind in whatever geometric shape is being used,.... just seems (to me) "wrong somehow" and )for me) it actaully seems to "skew" the formation's essence of symmetry and opens any conclusions of judging to skeptics and potential detractor's comments. ( that then seems to lemd itself to pushing some flyers apart rather then pulling flyers together)

The main problem is with be best fit and the tolerance that the current grid and rules allow for. It makes it far to easy to match the grid that we've eyeballed, said was pretty, etc in the past to what would generally fit the current grid.

There is also no fall rate limits (though hard to abet and enforce). We've never considered 80mph+ flocking true flocking.. I may as well put on some booties and go track in the group.. if i need wings, camera suit.


I'd like to see and be part of a tight grid over a what was deemed 'record' spacing last year any day. Why? The tolerances that you need to fly and hold your position are far less.. resulting is more and better skill and IMO better looking pictures. Don't get me wrong, I've been doing this long enough where I also know what it provides in large formations.

Taya and her group did what they set out to do - provide some standard, get people interested, get people talking, make some progress for wingsuiting as a true discipline. I applaud that. Just don't get too comfy on the current judging rules. Given a little time they will become more strict and show that we should really be showing, but there currently aren't enough people out there to really build something really large [the way I see it]. We'll get there. It's a stepping point in history

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[Birdman_Mike 0]

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I was under the impression that the first "perfect" 16-way was either late 2007 or early 2008.

Here you go WestCoast Wingsuits Event, July 2008 Worlds First/Largest Slot Perfect Formation

Congrats to the Mass 25way!

I believe that we made this formation on May 4th, 2008. In fact, we made two perfect 16 ways back to back. We had to do it twice because the camera flyer (Avery) could do either video or stills, but not both. We made an attempt at Z-Hills a couple of months earlier, but it was not quite perfect.

Purple Mike

P.S. Justin wasn't there because he just had a baby