Roderick 0 #1 August 9, 2011 can someone tell me what you would do if you had your main and your reserve open at the same time? such as a aad missfire as you pull ur main? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #2 August 9, 2011 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=two%20out&sb=score&mh=25 ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudyHead 0 #4 August 9, 2011 Quote can someone tell me what you would do if you had your main and your reserve open at the same time? such as a aad missfire as you pull ur main? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071027152150AAXrVJX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #6 August 9, 2011 Don't be an idiot and have an AAD fire. Two ways can help prevent it: Pull your main high enough to not get in the 'basement' Don't jump with an AAD Both ways have worked well for me."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #7 August 9, 2011 Quoteur an asshole A personal attack in your 17th post ever. I wonder if thats some kind of record.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #8 August 9, 2011 Quotehttp://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=two%20out&sb=score&mh=25 The good old "use the search function"! Which is entirely valid, but has limitations: For example, a discussion of two outs over the last week doesn't show up until page 3.... unless one does the search again, specifying a recent date range. While the recent thread isn't specifically about LANDING two outs, it is about two outs: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4160578; Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #9 August 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteur an asshole A personal attack in your 17th post ever. I wonder if thats some kind of record. Clearly you don't hang out in SC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudyHead 0 #10 August 9, 2011 Quote ur an asshole i didn't know you would take offense to that. sorry? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #11 August 9, 2011 Quote Quote http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=two%20out&sb=score&mh=25 The good old "use the search function"! Which is entirely valid, but has limitations: For example, a discussion of two outs over the last week doesn't show up until page 3.... unless one does the search again, specifying a recent date range. While the recent thread isn't specifically about LANDING two outs, it is about two outs: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4160578; Granted, however with 63,000+ posts on the subject I'm sure that young man could glean all kinds of information by going through some of them...as well as saving bandwidth rehashing the subject. He seems to want to learn, just showing him and easier and faster way. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsurfer69 0 #12 August 9, 2011 ok, peter chapman has requested I clarify what I state in my seminar on the subject. I have a 3 page word doc that explains the procedures for all 5 configurations and their correct response, attached. In essense here are the most important highlights; 1. keep the brakes set on both canopies 2. if brakes have been released on one, go to 1/2 brakes to simulate brakes set 3. check for entanglement, risers crossing thru risers instead of compressing against one another is the most difficult and important thing to look for, other entanglements such as deployment devices or suspension lines are fairly easy to identify 4. if above 1k feet, certain of no entanglement, separate the canopies using the left hand on the left rear riser of the left or rear canopy, into a downplane, cutaway and let go of the riser 5. if entangled, not sure, or below 1k feet, use the inside rear risers of each canopy to steer them together, keep them touching overhead, push the other canopy in the desired direction if control can be safely maintained, most importantly is to produce horizontal flight instead of downplane, accuracy may have to be sacrificed for rate of descent 6. steer the front canopy of a biplane if it must be landed, all dual landings require plf and no flare 7. it is always better to separate and cutaway if alti and entangle allow, only land them if you must 8. if main is open and reserve is hanging in the bag, attempt to gently lift the bagged reserve in hand, hold the bag closed, don't worry about pulling in the pc, just hold onto the bag with your hands instead of trying to put it between your legs or in your suit, steer with occasional rear riser or harness input, but hold onto the bag, at 15 feet, drop the bag and do a rear risers flare and plf 9. most rsl designs do not need to be released prior to cutaway of the main once both containers are open, however, a 2 sided rsl (racer) must be disconnected because of the possibility of the reserve deploying before the main, some cable pulling ring type rsl (javelin) can also hang onto the main if the rigid ripcord pin gets positioned between the 2 ripcord guide rings, check with your rigger or experienced instructor to see if yours fits either description 10. all of this information was derived from previous studies and my own experience flying and landing main and reserve canopies together 11. higher wing loadings and radically different planforms can make controlling 2 canopies pretty tricky, but if the canopies are lightly loaded or similar in design, it is easier than most would imagine 12. how you teach a new student and how you teach a jumper that has 20 flights, will probably need to be different because of the tmi syndrome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick 0 #13 August 9, 2011 well all of your guys comments and and opinions help. thank you for puting this into detail for me.this is somthing i wasnt told in ground school and i feel that his should be taught even though it happens very rarely. and to comment on the other post my opinion about the aad is that i think anyone who jumps with out one is not taking there life very serious. anything can happen in the sky and that one little thing is what will save you life.just my opinion not trying to upset anyone who jumps without one but.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #14 August 9, 2011 Quote... my opinion about the aad is that i think anyone who jumps with out one is not taking there life very serious. I jump without one and most people say I take life TOO serious...MY plan is to live forever, so far so good! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #15 August 9, 2011 Has anyone mentioned the Skydiver's Information Manual to you yet? http://www.uspa.org/SIM.aspxMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #16 August 10, 2011 http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/dualsq.pdf Different recommendation from one above. Recommends NOT cutting away a stable side/side. I did watch one student with a stable side by side ride it down only to have it go into a down plane under 100' (with no input we saw) and land him very hard. He didn't die but did have a severve closed head injury with lasting disability. YMMV It is VERY hard to be sure there are NO entanglements. It takes some time and study to be sure the canopies are clear and the pilot chute isn't tangled with the reserve. The mention of at least 20 seconds above is important. You can't tell at a glance and many people would have to study it for a lot longer to be sure. I saw video of some of these test jumps (or all) back in the day. Some of the cutaways were scary and at least one partially collapsed the reserve briefly. I don't remember seeing a video of the entanglement during a cutaway that required cutting the reserve away and using the third canopy of the test set up. Hmm, may I do in fact. But it was a LONG time ago for my old brain. This was a big controversy/deal/discussion/debate/question back in the early 90's when many DZ's were converting to ram air reserves for students. I had two out once due to a PC in tow clearing after I fired my reserve but I didn't have time to fly either one before hitting the trees. They were still opening. (Yes I know that's the argument for cutting away the main first but if I had I'd be dead because neither canopy had time to open completely before going into the trees.)I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #17 August 10, 2011 Quotewell all of your guys comments and and opinions help. thank you for puting this into detail for me.this is somthing i wasnt told in ground school and i feel that his should be taught even though it happens very rarely. and to comment on the other post my opinion about the aad is that i think anyone who jumps with out one is not taking there life very serious. anything can happen in the sky and that one little thing is what will save you life.just my opinion not trying to upset anyone who jumps without one but.... You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but odds are your opinion about a lot of skydiving issues will change drastically when you have more jumps and more experience. AADs have saved a whole lot of people, but they have also killed people as well. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petejones45 0 #18 August 10, 2011 Quote Quote can someone tell me what you would do if you had your main and your reserve open at the same time? such as a aad missfire as you pull ur main? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071027152150AAXrVJX please dont post that garbageLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #19 August 10, 2011 I din't even see that earlier! ...That is, right up until you just RE-posted it. Thanks for providing that service, Pete! I actually found it pretty funny! coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petejones45 0 #20 August 10, 2011 Quote I din't even see that earlier! ...That is, right up until you just RE-posted it. Thanks for providing that service, Pete! I actually found it pretty funny! haha yer welcome. im in line to be the next greenie so im going around and cleaning up some threadsLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #21 August 10, 2011 Quote im in line to be the next greenie To quote one of my favorite movie scene lines in response to this, if it is so... The horror..... ... .... ... ... ... ...The horror! coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudyHead 0 #22 August 16, 2011 Quote Quote Quote can someone tell me what you would do if you had your main and your reserve open at the same time? such as a aad missfire as you pull ur main? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071027152150AAXrVJX please dont post that garbage i'll keep my joking to a minimum. sorry sir! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
