S3 v. V1 comparisons

[leroydb 0]

I wish to hear more compairisons between the S3 and the V1... anyone?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[julesUK 0]

Quote

I wish to hear more compairisons between the S3 and the V1... anyone?

I flew an S3 last summer when I had about 120 GTi jumps and was very current. I did 6 jumps on it and did fantastic times (for me) on it.

The downside was that I was in agony by the end of the day and I found it quite tricky to fly - a bit like riding a barrel.

In February I got my V-1, jumped it while very uncurrent and got even better times and a groundspeed that is just silly. I find it very easy to fly, almost GTi-like, both in terms of stability and fatigue.

However, I am sure that if you wait a bit, the S5 "Random Greek Letter" will be even better, and then the V-2 "SuperFang" will be better than that and then......will the squabbles ever end?

If you want the best wingsuit that you can order today, its a V-1, especially if you intend BASEing it. But what do I know?

[TomAiello 25]

I split this off the Phantom thread and changed the title.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[SimonM 0]

Quote

I wish to hear more compairisons between the S3 and the V1... anyone?

I have about 80 S3 jumps and did 4 V1 jumps a few weeks ago. I found the suit technically easy to fly but my arms were completely stuffed after 2 jumps.

Performance was exceptional- same vertical speeds as on the S3 (but felt like there was lots more to come from the V1) and forward speed was just awesome.

I didnt really try any flocking in the V1 but I can imagine that it is a bit tricky to fly with slowly horozontally. I find that the S3 is happy to flock with anybody.

Simon

[Nidez 0]

I quote you, simon.

Just 1 thing, don't worry about your arms, after some jumps you'll feel confortable...
it was the same when you get your s3 for the first time isnt it ?

I made some flock with the V-1 and i had some problems too with slowing down horizontally... but i'm sure it can be done with some more training !

edit to correct "fwwl" into "feel"

Marco "Pazzo" Pistolesi
pistolesi.marco(at)gmail.com

[unclecharlie95 3]

It is true that the V1 is a true speed / glide machine, but with a little practice you can also learn to fly it slow with the flock

Try dropping your knees, de-arching your lower back and putting more camber in the arm wing (using the wingtip grippers) - this is what did it for me
A very cool thing about using a V1 for flocking is going out last on a big formation and using the suits awesome speed to quickly reach the base. It is even cooler at break off when you can give it full throttle for separation

BASEstore.it

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Quote

I made some flock with the V-1 and i had some problems too with slowing down horizontally... but i'm sure it can be done with some more training !

edit to correct "fwwl" into "feel"

There is no such thing as not being able to slow down horizontally or speed up vertically. It is usually a mental block that takes a bit of flocking to get over.

Kris.

[The111 1]

Quote

It is true that the V1 is a true speed / glide machine, but with a little practice you can also learn to fly it slow with the flock

I do seem to remember you and Robi, after the first flock at Flock-n-Dock where you had such a hard time, arriving in the boarding area for the second jump, both wearing Prodigys! (prodigIEs?) Not sure if that was because you were new to flocking in the V1 and hadn't figured it out yet, or just wanted to give the Prodigy a go for the hell of it (to be fair I guess you were wearing the V-1's again later so you were able to slow it down). But I do remember a bit of complaining about the flock's forward speed.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[unclecharlie95 3]

I won't deny it, that was my first big flock with the V1, and a learning experience too

We wanted to use the Prodigies to demonstrate their suitability / range for flocking, not just for beginners - which I think we did (like when I was trying to bite the leg wing of Chris' V1 )

BASEstore.it

[The111 1]

Quote

(like when I was trying to bite the leg wing of Chris' V1 )

Is that what they're calling it these days?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[unclecharlie95 3]

So back to the original question:

Quote

I wish to hear more compairisons between the S3 and the V1... anyone?

Comparisons in what way?

Performance?
Feel in flight?
Design & Construction?

Performance:
My GR with my S3 was 2.1 - 2.2, with my V-1 it is 2.5 - 2.6 and improving.

After talking to many V1 pilots, glide performance seems to come immediately through increased forward speed and also from reduced vertical speed after some practice.

Feel in flight:

This is a subjective thing. I find the suit is fast and demanding in flight. I find the arm wing easier to fly than the S3 and the leg wing slightly harder.

Design & Construction:
Get your hands on a V1 and have a look at in person to see this, or failing that download the user manual from the articles section of the pf website, which details the suits design & features.

Do a search on this forum as there are quite a few other posts from earlier this year with peoples V1 impressions.

Maybe someone who has jumped the S3S with the V1 would like to add to this thread? I know Scott and Perry flew together at the dz.com boogie.

Hope this helps Leroy
J

BASEstore.it

[The111 1]

Quote

Design & Construction?

I know Perry has had some problems with parts of his V1... I seem to remember him saying something about "4 repairs", but the only one I know of for sure, that he showed me, was a cross port tearing.

Is this an early design issue that has been worked out, or should I just attribute it to Perry being Perry? (this is the man who has blown out more than 1 BM suit!) These problems must not be too common yet since I haven't seen others on here complaining of them...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[unclecharlie95 3]

Quote

was a cross port tearing.

Caused when he repeatedly caught his shoe on the crossport when putting the suit on - we changed the production, adding a mesh cover to prevent this.

The other repairs have been wear & tear caused by "Perry being Perry". Perry flies a lot and he flies hard, his personal flying style uses an incredible amount of body tension.

BASEstore.it

[Costyn 0]

Quote

I made some flock with the V-1 and i had some problems too with slowing down horizontally... but i'm sure it can be done with some more training !

Well, I dunno if you saw the video of the past Wingsuit Weekend in Teuge (shameless plug: http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=635396;#1728395), but "Toothless" Tristan (Airowpoint on dz.com) was flying James' V1 in the flocks, and those were his first couple jumps on the suit. Granted, he wasn't flying right next to the base, but he could keep up nicely with the flock, both in vertical and horizontal speed. Yeah, he is a bit of a natural (I think he has like 50 wingsuit jumps - correct me if I'm wrong Tristan - the guy is quite the flyer), but I see no real reason you can't flock with a V1, especially with some practice.

Yes, the thing is a speed machine, but there's brakes on it too.

Cheers!

Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

[dmkellett 0]

Hey,

I have about 350 S3 jumps, and 70 v1 jumps now. I found the transition from s3 to v1 much less of a hurdle than the transition from gti to s3. i had about 35 wingsuit jumps when i first tried s3 and i almost gave up wing suits after my first two s3 jumps. I found it scary and far too restrictive, very twitchy and difficult to deploy in. However, I now realise that this was very little to do with the S3 . I was a crap WS pilot, when i tried to fly something that actually needs skilled input to gain any benefit over the other smaller suits.

I realise now that my "flight" in the s3 was not a flight controlled by me, rather me rigid in the suit potato chipping around afraid to fly the pattern because the suit seemed too scary to me when in a turn!!

The more jumps i do the more i realise that you simply cannot just buy a top end suit and fly above average , if anything the higher performance suits will lead to lower performance from a inexperienced pilot than a beginner suit.

So for me , the transition to s3 was the biggest hurdle so far. Saying that, I hooked up with a great guy called Damien in Australia last year and he coached me in the s3. We built up slowly, and within a few jumps (maybe 8 or 10) I felt at ease in the suit. I then went on to have so much fun at equinox boogie in the s3 i have almost given up all other types of freefall.

I believe the s3 is a very stable suit and is quite easy to fly if you simply relax. I even saw someone land from a 5 way flock and say "these things are fun aren't they?" as he handed his mate back his s3.... I hadn't noticed anything in freefall apart from a tight flock with everyone in their slots but it later transpired this was the guys first WS jump..... He was beaming from ear to ear when he landed and i thought he seemed a little more exited than the rest of us!! He was on the british Red Devils parachute display team so i cannot think this would be a regular experience for 1st time jumpers...

So what i'm saying is comparisons are so very subjective.

Back to the original question, the two suits seem to be similar in many ways in the air, with a few noticeable differences....

The s3 requires a little more tension in the arm wings, by that i mean the suit seemed to get a slightly lower vertical speed if you pulled the wingtip grippers AWAY from you GENTLY. i find the V1 requires you to tension your upper arm significantly to produce maximum performance but at the same time relaxing your wrists slightly and moving them in a couple of inches towards the torso. this allows the airfoil profile to form at the optimum position and gives the optimum profile.

There seems to be a significant increase in performance by really fine tuning the arm position in the V1 and the flight envelope seems to be quite narrow, but very productive when got right or nearly right...

By lowering your head (tilting your chin down) by about 35 to 45 degrees and pushing the upper vertebrae of your spine up towards the back of your head in the v1, a much lower angle of attack of your entire body is acheived over the angle the s3 is flown at.

When combining this with concentrating on the arm and leg wing position and pushing the leg wing hard a noticable increase of the ground speed can be experienced with the v1 over the s3.

I , however feel that i have still a lot to learn from the leg wing. i have preferred to concentrate on the arm wing and just push "balls to the wall " with my legs till now, so probably have more to come from further concentration on leg position and fine tuning.

I have found that like others have said, vertical speeds are almost identical as my s3 speeds, but the impression is that a lot more ground has moved under me during the flight. I suspect again that with practice and currency , vert speeds will reduce by 10 15 percent for my body type.

I think that the arm pressure of the V1 is definatley not easier than that experienced on the S3. If anything it is harder, although not by much. This I am certain is due to the better airfoil design simply producing more lift....I feel I cannot fly the V1 for any more than about 50 to 60 seconds at optimum position, possibly less.

I have devised a training routine with a friend of mine who is a specialist sports personal trainer specifically for WS. As I have only been training for a few months specifically i feel there is more to be had from longer flights in the V1 at optimum position.....
The problem is that WS flight uses lots of muscles, some of which our day to day existence trains us well for (like legs) and others (Shoulders/back/arms/core) that we usually have little or no development in and therefore tend to tire very quickly when in flight , on larger suits.

gonna go try think of more , but tired now.

later,

Darren

[Airowpoint 0]

Thanks Costyn, you're too kind. You also rock with your classic, just wait till you get larger wings!
About the S3 vs. V1 ordeal. I'm also very confused. there is no doubt that the quality of the V1 is much better than the S3 although the S3s would probably be a large improvement.
This weekend I flew both suits 3 times (so definitely no expert). My impression was that the V1 would flock just as good as the S3 on these jumps. I have no idea however what would happen at flocks with more performance/speed. I'm especially interested in the S3s vs. V1 flocking. Maybe the S3s also has a steeper angle like the V1?
I want to do everything with my suit, flocking, chasing clouds, going for distance/air-time. I should also keep in mind what other suits are flown at my dropzones if I want to flock with others. Unfortunately there are no V1's yet in Holland. But then again someone has to be the first, maybe me (I almost bought one the day I tried it, but I shouldn't be that impulsive).

For now I've chosen the S3 but I might swap it for a V1 in a while.

Tristan
Will you answer "NO" to my next question?

[Nidez 0]

Hey guys, you misunderstand me... i said:

Quote

some problems too with slowing down horizontally... but i'm sure it can be done with some more training !

Marco "Pazzo" Pistolesi
pistolesi.marco(at)gmail.com