Container Age Question

[McDuck 0]

I demo'd a friend's rig this past weekend, a Hornet 190, and became immediately enamored of this rig. My only concern is that the container (can't, for the life of me, remember what kind of container it is), was manufactured in '89.

As I was packing it for the last time that day, thinking I would probably try to save my pennies and get this rig, another jumper mentioned that I needed to replace my rig. He said that you should never buy a container that is over five years old as they deteriorate rapidly. Any thoughts on this? It looked okay, except for a few spots where it had been resewn.

I'll see it again this weekend. Anything else I should be looking for?

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[wmw999 2,129]

This is an area where you really need the opinion of a good rigger; in the case of a rig that's had some sewing, it might need to be a master rigger.

Because it all depends on how the rig was taken care of, and how much use it's had. I have a backup rig that I bought 20+ years ago, and I have no qualms whatsoever about jumping it; it's not just age.

Some colors fade, so you can't base it just on that, either. Get an inspection. 14 years is getting old, but for a good deal, it can last plenty long enough for you to cut your teeth and decide what you really need in a rig.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skybytch 259]

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He said that you should never buy a container that is over five years old as they deteriorate rapidly.

I'd be interested to know how he determined this. Never heard that one before.

I've seen 15 year old rigs that looked close to new, and I've seen 4 year old rigs that looked like trash. It's all in how the gear is taken care of - if it's kept out of the sun and not drug across landing areas or packing areas a container should still be airworthy after many years of service. It doesn't have to look like new to perform like it did when it was new.

Before buying any piece of used equipment have an experienced rigger inspect it. If s/he pronounces it airworthy then it's fine.

Caveat - just because it's airworthy doesn't mean it's "freefly safe." But if the price is right, it's rigger approved, the harness fits you, the canopies aren't too small or way too big for you and you can wait to explore the dark side, go for it.

[andy2 0]

hey kevin, talk to Greg. He's been around a little while longer than most and been rigging for a good number of years. He'll be able to tell you the quality of the gear pretty easily. Just make sure what youre buying is safe and will function, and is appropriate for you.

I'll see you this weekend if youre around, when my gear finally all comes in, just waiting on my sabre 120 to come in. I think my container is sitting down in manefest office right now.

blue skies brother

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[McDuck 0]

Yeah, that's what I had planned on doing, but I didn't want to make a big deal out of it with the guy selling it being right there. What I'm thinking I'll do is sit a lift out while the guy selling it (Kevin W.) goes up. That will give me time to ask Greg to take a look at it without making anyone uncomfortable. I'm just weird that way, I guess.

Hey, I thought you should know that Cora LOVES that rig. She's still working on standing up her landings, but she really enjoys having her own equipment. And that canopy looks SO good in the air.

We'll be out there a bit late this weekend, since Cora has to work half days at the hospital both Saturday and Sunday. Look for us between 12 and 1pm. Maybe the three of us can get a jump in together.

The weekend after that, Bridge Day weekend, John and Kelly will be gone but the DZ will be open. Looks like Buddha and I will probably be running the DZ: me in manifest and him coordinating the rest. Hopefully we'll get to see you then as well.

Blue skies my friend,

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[wmw999 2,129]

It's perfectly all right, when buying (or even looking at) gear, to say "It looks to be what I'm interested in -- I'd like to have my rigger take a look."

It's kind of like saying you want to check a car out with a mechanic before buying it. Only cheaper and a whole lot less hassle when you're all at the DZ together.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[McDuck 0]

I know that to be true, but some overly-cautious aspect of my nature never wants to offer even the semblance of offense. I'll have our master rigger check it out, but I'll do that once the seller is making a jump. Between good manners and my "better safe than stupid" policy, it's a wonder I'm not a shut-in.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[riggerrob 558]

It is standard practice to make the sale conditional on inspection by a rigger.
Riggers rarely charge more than the cost of a normal inspect and repack.
A detailed inspection of the main canopy normally costs $20 to $30.
The cost of any repairs should be deducted from the asking price.
For long distance sales, it is also common to ask a respected rigger to broker the deal. He inspects the rig and holds it until the check clears.

[aero04 0]

I have a Racer made in 1989. While not the prettiest rig on the dz, it works just fine.

As Skybytch and Wendy said, it is all in how the rig was taken care of. The person that owned the rig before me was anal about care and maintenance, therefore, the rig is good shape for the number of years on it. And I've tried to be the same way for the year I've had it. It has been a adequate for a first rig. (I say adequate because I thought it was freefly safe, bought it, found it later is isn't, yada, yada, yada. Nothing to do with safety.)

[McDuck 0]

The more I hear along these lines (common sense), the more I wonder why this person said that to me. I'll have our master rigger check it out and see if he thinks it's worth the asking price. I'm no genius, and I don't play one on T.V., but the rig doesn't look that bad to me. I'll know more after I have it looked at.

Thanks for all the advice!

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[JohnRich 4]

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The more I hear along these lines (common sense), the more I wonder why this person said that to me.

Whoever said that "5 year" comment to you didn't know what the heck he was talking about. You did the right thing by asking around for additional opinions. And now you've got some good advice to follow-up with, by having an experienced rigger inspect the system for you.

Never be afraid to ask questions, of multiple people!

[McDuck 0]

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Whoever said that "5 year" comment to you didn't know what the heck he was talking about. You did the right thing by asking around for additional opinions. And now you've got some good advice to follow-up with, by having an experienced rigger inspect the system for you.

Never be afraid to ask questions, of multiple people!

I am nothing, if not a vessel to be filled with knowledge.

Thank you to everyone who chimed in on this. It's really helped.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[Swanee 0]

My second rig is an '84 Racer. Perfectly airworthy according to a recent rigger inspection. I would not, however, use it for freeflying!

[McDuck 0]

In light of all the absorbing I've done lately, including heavy reading in the incident section of the forums, I may just pass on this one. It's a Hornet 190, elliptical canopy, and I'm wing loading it at about 1.2. While I had no problems with it under normal conditions, and was able to stand my landings up like never before, I'm thinking that, at 33 jumps I should probably get more experience before taking any chances. Better safe than stupid.

Anby thoughts on this?

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[ianmdrennan 2]

If you're going to be loading a 190 at 1.2:1 I'd suggest stepping up so that your loading goes to 1:1 for your weight range. There'll always be time to step down if it's what you want.

Oh and one other thing...the hornet is a slightly tapered wing, much like the sabre2. The elliptical PISA canopy is the Heatwave.

Either way be safe.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[McDuck 0]

That's what I was thinking. I don't want to get ahead of myself. And it;s usually when new skydivers are feeling over confident that they need to back off...WAY off. At least, that's my opinion for MY safety.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[wingnut 0]

wierd about the age thing.... my first rig was a 1983 racer and it had about 8 inches of riser "protruding" from the rings until it went under the "riser covers".. got al sorts of wierd loks from jumpers that had never seen this kind (age/model)of rig before. i did find out one thing though..... if you are ever in germany your gear can't be over 12 years old or you can't jump it.... or maybe it was just the reserve.. can't remeber, all i know is that my gear was "forien" so they overlooked it for me...lol....

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[McDuck 0]

Well, you'll all be happy to know that our DZ's master rigger looked the whole thing over many times (in fact, he's inspected it for its current owner many times as well) and has found nothing wrong with it. After asking around, it turns out that the person who made that comment never jumps, but likes to offer totally BS advice to people he's never seen around there before. Nothing unsafe, mind you, just information similar to what he tried to feed me.

If the guy hasn't sold this rig by the time I get the money for it, I think I'll go ahead and get it. I've already flown it and found it to be within my limited skill range. I'll fly it slow and carefully until I get a REAL feel for it (if I get to purchase it), then I can continue to increase my knowledge so I can explore the capabilities of that canopy...after about 170 more jumps.

Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful advice.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[flylikeahandbag 0]

I had a 1986 Zerox until recently and it was in great condition. I would not have used it for FF though without any mods, but it was an ideal starters rig. As others have said get a rigger to check it out for you.

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http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

[welshKat 0]

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i did find out one thing though..... if you are ever in germany your gear can't be over 12 years old or you can't jump it.... or maybe it was just the reserve.. can't remeber,

Hey there, does anyone know any more about this? I just bought a rig made in '92.. (and am rather attached to it already
blue skies & blue rigs!
Kat x

[BlindBrick 0]

My old DZ has six Telesis student rigs that are DOM 88. They look like crap because they've been handled by students for years, but they are still very airworthy even thousands of jumps later.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[skybytch 259]

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I'll fly it slow and carefully until I get a REAL feel for it

A 1.2 wingloading?

Hope shit doesn't happen to you. Medical insurance paid up?

[McDuck 0]

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I'll fly it slow and carefully until I get a REAL feel for it

A 1.2 wingloading?

Hope shit doesn't happen to you. Medical insurance paid up?

That's 1.2:1, and isn't entirely accurate, because I've been losing weight. I haven't had any problems with it so far, and I've been careful not to get crazy with it. I'm more accurate and able to stand all my landings up. At this point, I think I'm doing okay. I even asked around the DZ to see if people thought, based on my skill level and knowledge, that I should jump something larger and the general consensus was "Why?" It seems like a good size for me, and the canopy seems quite forgiving.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.