ManBird 0 #1 July 30, 2003 Just a reminder to not fly maxed out and deploy at the same time. That's pretty much what caused my PC in tow that I couldn't clear on Saturday (wherein my main was subsequently stolen). Either dive a bit to get a lot of air over your back or throw out your knees to burn off forward speed. Two other factors contributed to the malfunction. One was were a tight pack job... it wasn't so tight that it was just too hard to get out, but it was tight enough to need a "normal" amount of force. The other was a weak throw. I was flying pretty hard right at the end, and when I went to pitch, my thumb got so stiff from holding the grippers that I couldn't bend it! I got the PC between my fingers just under the handle and pitched that way, but couldn't get a good throw out of it. Moral of the story: Don't have spazz thumbs."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #2 July 30, 2003 I don't recall if you have any mods on your shit our not, but if not, you need to get with the program. Bobby Pritchard almost went in twice due to PC in tow and inability (insufficient drag on risers to operate three ring) to cutaway. He got smart quick and had his corners cut on his old rig, bought a new Mirage with cut corners, and got a proper PC. "Just getting by" is not good enough in this discipline. Get the proper equipment to do the job right. That said, anyone here can do a search in this forum to see how I dump. I throw out, count to two, then drop my knees so that my bag pulls cleanly off my back. There are a lot of people jumping suits now. More and more of them are finding out that "standard" gear will get them by for some time, but eventually it's going to hose them. Be smart and stay alive. Those comments are not directed at anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits, wear it. Chuck Blue BM-I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #3 July 30, 2003 Chuck, both my Wings W-10's have insanely long bridles (like 92 inches) and huge pilot chutes. That's what you are talking about, right? GTi jumps this weekend. JP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #4 July 30, 2003 Quoteboth my Wings W-10's have insanely long bridles (like 92 inches) and huge pilot chutes. That is a wings option that you apparently got which is in your favor. Do you pack grommet up? That is another easy way to ensure your D bag has a cleaner exit from the pack tray as it doesn't have to rotate, which can cause uneven deployment and line twists sometimes."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #5 July 30, 2003 I recently got a huge bridle put on, about 10 feet, and I'm definitely getting more consistent openings but I haven't tried packing grommet up. What's the downside to doing this? What isn't it standard for all jumps? I'll try it at home tonight but my hunch is that the depth of my dbag isn't the same as it's height, which might stop it fitting properly if I pack grommet up. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 July 30, 2003 QuoteWhat's the downside to doing this? As far as I know there is no down side to it where wing suit or normal skydives are concerned. With wing suit flights the bag has a tendancy to leave the pack tray at about a 45 degree angle. Packing it grommet up allows it to leave the pack tray cleaner than if it had to rotate 90 degrees before leaving. Quotemy hunch is that the depth of my dbag isn't the same as it's height, which might stop it fitting properly if I pack grommet up. I won't say it is impossible but I think you will find if you give it a try yours will accomodate packing grommet up. I too thought my small ass reacer would never hold the D bag grommet up but with a little bit of practice I was able to close it up no sweat."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #7 July 30, 2003 QuoteI think you will find if you give it a try yours will accomodate packing grommet up I'll let you know what it's like. Quoteallows it to leave the pack tray cleaner than if it had to rotate 90 degrees before leaving Infact it's more like 135 degress: 90 degree rotation in the container + the 45 degrees that it's leaving your back at. Here's an idea: if you haven't opened up the corners of your container might you want the dbag to rotate so it can rotate over the lip at the bottom of the container rather than trying to pull right through it? GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #8 July 30, 2003 QuoteInfact it's more like 135 degress: 90 degree rotation in the container + the 45 degrees that it's leaving your back at. Correct, that is why I said 90 degrees before leaving the pack tray. QuoteHere's an idea: if you haven't opened up the corners of your container might you want the dbag to rotate so it can rotate over the lip at the bottom of the container rather than trying to pull right through it? Negative, thats a big no, the pattern is full ghostrider The whole reason cut corners are recommended are to prevent the D bag from flipping,twisting, rotating,wiggling etc, as it leaves the pack tray. This is what causes line twists in birdman and regular skydiving. What happens sometime when a D bag is packed in the "normal" way on birdman jumps is that it DOES begin to twist or turn becasue of the "lip" at the bottom when it leaves the pack tray. Those few seconds that it hits the bottom of the pack tray can cause the D bag to go into a spin or cause uneven line deployment which as we know is no fun."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #9 July 30, 2003 Quote[Here's an idea: if you haven't opened up the corners of your container might you want the dbag to rotate so it can rotate over the lip at the bottom of the container rather than trying to pull right through it? Gus I'm not sure how much rotation you're thinking but before I had my corners cut I was told by another wingsuit pilot that he rotates his 180% to help with line twists -- I tried it and resulted in cutaway number 3. Definately a no no, spun it up more than I could count. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #10 July 30, 2003 QuoteI was told by another wingsuit pilot that he rotates his 180% to help with line twists -- I tried it and resulted in cutaway number 3. I am not sure what you mean rotate 180(degrees? %?) from what starting position. Most people either rotate the bag 90 degrees leaving the grommet facing the bottom of the reserve, or do not rotate at all and leave the bridle coming out the top. can you clarify what you mean. My rig does not pack very nice if I do not rotate. btw-I will be making my first birdman jumps this weekend so I hope I have no problems. Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #11 July 30, 2003 QuoteQuoteI was told by another wingsuit pilot that he rotates his 180% to help with line twists -- I tried it and resulted in cutaway number 3. I am not sure what you mean rotate 180(degrees? %?) from what starting position. Most people either rotate the bag 90 degrees leaving the grommet facing the bottom of the reserve, or do not rotate at all and leave the bridle coming out the top. can you clarify what you mean. My rig does not pack very nice if I do not rotate. btw-I will be making my first birdman jumps this weekend so I hope I have no problems. Josh Well instead of going 90% where the grommet was up I went 180% where the grommet was DOWN... it was stupid, don't try it at home :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #12 July 30, 2003 I thought that was what you were saying, Thanks for clarifying. btw- %=percent, while you are trying to indicate degrees. no biggie though Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #13 July 30, 2003 QuoteI thought that was what you were saying, Thanks for clarifying. btw- %=percent, while you are trying to indicate degrees. no biggie though Josh Yeah i wasn't thinking but you get the point :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #14 July 30, 2003 I have deployed maxed out for over 50-60 flights, so I don't see that as an issue... 1. Strong pilot chute throw 2. Drop knees 1-2 sec after pitch 3. after main starts opening I bring my arms up to the risers(stay symetrical) edit to add: Its worth it to get the corners cut and a long bridal... I think it might be almost manditory at some point to get these mods..... here's 10 cents, my 2 cents is free . . .Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #15 July 30, 2003 I have a 108" bridle with a 28" ZP PC and open corners on the container. I'm thinking of putting on a BASE deployment system for the S3. Like a 144" bridle and a wide mesh 38" PC with no hackey, as well as the BASE PC pocket. Either that or the 144" bridle with a 34" kill line collapsible PC. Rather than hopping between wingsuit and non-wingsuit dives frequently, it's usually more that I'm either flying the wingsuit, or it's winter, and I'm doing hop and pops. I think I switch between the two infrequently enough to no mind have two PC setups. Being that I have no pilot chute, bridle, or even a main, now's probably a good time to address this. I wonder if Wings could figure out how to put one of those seriously kick-ass stowless d-bags that Javelin has now. I envy those who use them. They're perfect for wingsuits, too. Hell, they're perfect for any type of skydiving."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #16 July 30, 2003 I love my base PC pouch, i use it all the time for my wingsuit jumps.. however i've found out the velcro they run up the leg (which does run behind the back pad of the rig) will tear up the back pad after repeated use.. i took a small piece of velcro and put it on the hook portion of the leg that goes behind the backpad so that it isn't rubbing anymore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #17 July 30, 2003 QuoteI have deployed maxed out for over 50-60 flights, so I don't see that as an issue.When your heel partially eclipses your view of the pilot chute, there's something wrong. ;) As mentioned earlier, I think deploying while maxed was one part, but a major part, of three problems that summed up to a malfunction: 1: Flying too flat on deployment 2: Packing a little too "big", thus putting pressure on the pin 3: A weak throw This is combination that caused me to chop (and cost me my main). Renter's insurance is looking good so far. I'll be compensated if they decide that my gear was not an aircraft, aircraft part, or aircraft accessory, which I really hope they don't decide."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 July 30, 2003 While I'm sure all these gear mods are sure to keep you from going in, the real lifesavers are awarenes, and preparation. I'm over 200 wingsuit jumps now, and I STILL practice deployment every time I put on the suit, starting with the heel clicks. When I feel my PC go out week or a hesitation in deployment I do something about it, spill more are, change my angle of attack. Reserve ride is the last option. I've got 2200+, on cutaway on jump 26 and one total because I was stupid and buletproof on #286, I'd like to keep it that way. Knock on wood.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #19 July 30, 2003 Reserve ride was my last option, as well. That's why I began my emergency procedures at about 1,700 feet. I worked to get that PC working right. I have it on video, and I'm definitely working to fix it (flying on my side with wings collapsed for a couple seconds at a time). I left my charger/AC adapter at the DZ, but will get something laid down when I go pick them up. There's some fun footage from that jump that shows just how close you can fly above someone without being in their burble. Though, I did manage to nail some of diveout's dead-air after awhile."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #20 July 30, 2003 QuoteEither dive a bit to get a lot of air over your back or throw out your knees to burn off forward speed.I just wanted to clarify that "throw out your knees to burn off forward speed" should not be interpreted as "flaring", and is not what you want to do when you dump. I meant more of a "collapse the wings and get small" type of thing than a flare thing. If you flare, you kill a lot of air behind you, and have a higher chance of hesitation or PC in tow. I personally prefer to dive a little bit, maybe pitch my body about 20° down, and get a lot of air going over my back. I jacked up that last one by flying too flat."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #21 July 30, 2003 IMO I don't see anything wrong with flairing your body. The idea is to reduce your foward velocity, increase your vertical speed. The canopy will deploy in the direction relative wind takes it, so why not try to make that direction perpendicular with your torso. I see alot of people, especialy those learning, who get slung way out in front of their canopy. Even saw one guy nearly back flip through his risers. This does not need to be. A birdman deployment need not feel any different than a normal one. It's all in the tequnique. Whatever works for you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #22 July 30, 2003 DP - see this thread, robi says: Hi all, I agree with Per! To slow down before pull sequence is just one bad thing. Look at my smoke flight in Arco and you'll be able to notice how big turbulence we have behind the body when we fly in ''fast'' mode! Clearly, you can notice the turbulence which is coming from induced drag (vortex at the tip of the wing as the resolute of the air flow from the lower surface to the upper surface of the wing because of difference in pressure.) Imagine what is happening when you slow down and put your body in ''slow'' mode. The turbulence will be huge!! that for sure is not the place were you want to place your PC in BASE jumping. Personally, I pull in ''fast'' mode ( trying to be as fast as possible ) I have Troll with no MDV and using small mash slider with double rubberband at ''C'' line. Yes, my openings are usually hard, but I rather live w this than with hesitation of my PC or canopy. This opening technique I am using for BASE jumping I do not recommend for small skydiving canopies because the swing from the pull can void you in serious line twist . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #23 July 31, 2003 I guess if you swing out hard enough to get slack in your lines, that'd be a bad thing. I usually fly hard, dive a bit, deploy, and then get small/collapse everything and bring my knees way forwards into sort of a "cannonball" position. I gives a good airflow through the deployment and then starts to burn off some forward speed through opening. I get swung forwards, but never too severely and nothing gets "whipped". When he says tiny skydiving canopies, I wonder how tiny he means? Did my Sabre 120 qualify, or was that a reference to ellipticals? Line twists on my Sabre 120 were VERY seldom... pretty much non-existent after getting a modded rig (maybe 1 or 2 over ~200 WS jumps on my Wings, as opposed to maybe 10 out of ~50 WS jumps on my Racer). I might have to change things up a wee bit for my Sabre2 107... which I really, really can't wait for."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 July 31, 2003 Kevin, Thanks for the post, nice reading, and I dispute none of it. I was just emphesising the point that wat works for you, works for you. What works for me may be different. I am fully aware that I go against some of the conventional wisdoms of wing suit flying. (Small loaded eliptical, pullout, short bridal, non-modded rig.) I don't advicate it, but I've found ways to make it work for me. Maybe I give up something, like not deploying below 4 grand. Whatever. Fly well. Fly far. Fly fast. Note: Results may vary, not tested on labratory animals, objects in mirror may be larger than they appear, offer not good in some areas, may cause drousyness, keep out of the reach of children. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #25 August 1, 2003 QuoteI won't say it is impossible but I think you will find if you give it a try yours will accomodate packing grommet up. Ok, I tried it last night - it was actually pretty easy and didn't look too different to normal. I haven't left it packed like that but I may try jumping it like that this weekend. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
