Freefly Ball weight?????

[jvair 0]

I just wanted to thank everyone who gave me info on this subject. Thank you for that, and more inportantly, thanks for trusting a fellow freeflyier to make the right choices when it comes to using the info provided. As for the people who doubt my judgement, I dont take it personaly Its good to have people out there tring to make this a safer sport.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "you have no respect for the ball."
Having read this thread and seeing as it's in the 'freeflying' forum I find it a bit distasteful that there is some-one who's interested in restricting information which sounds as if it should fall into the realm of 'common' knowledge.

If for instance you bought a book on freeflying and for the training ball chapter it said "restricted information-- only available to selected people'
........
I'd toss that book in the bin cause I'd question it's truthfulness and openness on other topics as well.

Just some free thoughts ....no offence meant and cetainly none taken.

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[Vertifly 0]

Spacegames and Skymama, Here I come...the devil's advocate as usual; but hear me out. As an experienced jumper who has seen way too many deaths (and injuires) in the sport I will be the first to say that jumping a skyball alone or without qualification is extremely irresponsible.

Regardless of the dangers I will address at the end of this post, here is a little opinon (you know you couldn't avoid this...hahah): A warning when I had 'low jumps' would have made little diffrerence. Regardless of any dangers that existed, I made a skyball anyway. Why?...because I wanted to be better. Because coaching is freekin expensive. Because the skygods at my DZ paid little attention to people with a few-hundred jumps less. And because, at the time, a steady and unemotional free-fly partner seemed like a good idea (i.e a skyball).

Typical Goldy-lock story...the first one was too heavy, the second was too light, the third was just right. Secretly, I think that jumpers should thankful for my reponsibility with regard to spotting, attention to winds, and jump order, etc. or they would have been at risk. And they weren't at risk because I was responsible. I have gone up with the ball MANY times and not released it due to a discrepancy related to what I have said. Many times.

And if I felt that way about things and acted on it; many more people where/are likely to do the same. So flyers will likely continue to make them. And jump with them. Maybe this is a good time to talk about how important it is to be responsible with one of these missles.

The concerns we have about the danger of posting such detailed information about skyballs is quite valid. Most freeflyers are incapable of the skill involved to use such a tool without being a risk to others.

It is the responsibility that should be stressed on owning one of these. A skyball is a modern day cannonball. If it lands on a car, or your hangar, or someone's roof, it will go through it and kill someone. If you don't have a license to prove your ability to fly with a skyball and are jumping in an area anywhere near human beings then it is stupid to jump with one.

It is unlikely that every freeflyer is going to know (enough) whether he/she can fly a consitent slot - speaking vertically, horizontally, or on heading. What else do you need to know?...a lot!. You need to know if you have enough experience or intelligence to sit on a plane with a ball and be able to assess the ENTIRE situation. Everything not related to your jump and having fun with the ball is a factor. Exit order, other jumper's experience levels, winds direction and speed, the spot, your spot, YES-ball weight, your skill, hard-deck(what altitude to stop playing with the ball and retreive it), etc...there is probably more - maybe someone can add to this list. ??


Be responsible with these:

Can you fly stable vertically, horizontally, and on heading? What are the winds pushing? Where are they pushing? What is the spot on the day you jump a ball? What is the best order to exit with a ball? And is the ball weight correct? Is someone ballmastering? What are the skill levels of the people in front and behind? Did you ask for extra time to exit from the people behind and in front?

[Levin 0]

i understand what u r sayin', but i have to disagree. this information should be restricted. I get the freedom of skydiving, your life is your own do what u want with it, but skyballs are an exception. when jumping with a ball u r not only responsible for your own life but also pilot's license and career, the DZO's business and anyone or anyone's property or any living creature that maybe under the flight path of the ball. not to mention that a spaceball is an far violation if it is not retrieved. it will only take one major accident for the far's to be re-worded to specifically include balls. what's to stop an upcoming freeflying at a cessna dz with few or no experienced freeflyers from making a spaceball and experimenting with it when they are yet ready. say for example they follow jose's instructions in this thread. his instructions are for a very fast ball. after leaving the cessna or any plane that ball will take off like a rocket once released. the freeflyer will have to do 200+mph to catch up to it and when they do will discover how difficult it can be to retrieve one at 180mph. it's quit likely they will lose the ball. if spotting was not taken into consideration or the freeflyer does not know how to spot from a cessna the ball could go down in a place it shouldn't. if it hits pavement it could pepper anyone or anything wihin' a couple of hundred feet. like a tandem a spaceball is not a regular skydive. you r responsible for more than your own life. once a freeflyer is ready to jump with balls they shouldn't have any trouble finding out to properly make one. even if instructions are not available in print. it's part of policing our own sport.

edit: typos

[Levin 0]

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What is the best order to exit with a ball?

always last. i great deal of attention needs to be paid to the spot. it's not somethin' that should be rushed in 5 or 6 seconds. i always exit last with ball. my dytter is set for 6500'. i retrieve the ball at 6000' and deploy by 5000' - 4500' leaving plenty of time to make it back from a long spot. And by exiting last if i get to the door and find a cloud layer has moved in i do not hose anyone else while giving the ball to the pilot. If the conditions aren't right I always give the ball to the pilot since there is no longer any reason to exit with it.

[rhys 0]

i am looking at jumping with a ball too. there is no ball master available for me here in tandem factoryville but i do have a d.z. nearby that i have talked to that will allow me to jump one.(they are in a dessert and will spot me miles from anything?) the first people to jump a ball wouldn't have had ball masters?

vladiballs cost nz$70+ once you get them here. the price of 2 jumps. tennis balls and lead shot cost bugger all.

someone i know jumped 3 vladiballs and dropped 3 vladiballs.= expensive.

if preperation of the ball going in is made (jumping in a dessert) then whats the problem??

i'm still going to do it i have permission. if someone would p/m me the correct proceedures to construct 1 that would be greatly appreciated.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Trae 1]

in rep 2:'i understand what u r sayin', but i have to disagree. this information should be restricted."

yep fair enough ...I can see where you're coming from too.

Whenever anyone else is likely to be badly affected due to our actions I suppose some caution is advisable. Such restrictive methods can go into strange over -controlled unnecssarily elitist spaces in my experience. Sort of like a false piousness or even superstitious behaviour and thoughts.

It also seems that people will just have a go anyway and then not have the benefit of prior knowledge and so be more likely to make mistakes.

Some form of well informed disclaimer may be the middle ground...as it's not really little kiddies we're talking to here.

I've seen some pretty grotesque freefall 'toys' tossed out of planes eg roadkill and weird gross shit often by so called 'freeflyers'.

I suppose just caring enough to express our views and allowing others to do the same is also a good starting place for achieving the 'respect for the ball' mentioned in this thread.

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[jose 0]

Trae, Lev, Vert......Had I thought about all the commotion this would have caused, I would'nt of posted my thoughts. Posting that was not one of my best moves, nor thought out ones. Unfortunately, this site has restricted members from removing posts after 6 hours for some reason. I requested 2 times that it be removed by a moderator, and both times I was for the most part, told to pound sand.

Good things have come of this post though. Differing attitudes leading to many concerns and safety issues for the masses to read and consider before undertaking the responsibiliy to jump a ball. For those that had it in their head to make one and jump it regardless, at least they have a bit more information to make a ball that will fly better than one that was made terribly wrong. Should they? No.

[Trae 1]

in reply to 'Had I thought about all the commotion this would have caused, I would'nt of posted my thoughts. '

I don't think you did the wrong thing. I found your information interesting and it furthered my understanding of a slightly more obscure part of our sport.

More freeflying and more freedom of information to us mature adults I reckon .

Thanks for sharing like you did.

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[sangiro 4]

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i would ask the dropzone.com team to take off the post of "jose" - of how to do a spaceball. please.

You may not like his post and may disagree with it but he has not broken any rules. Feel free to correct his post if you wish but there's no reason to remove it.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[WrongWay 0]

What up Vert! I figured I'd jump in on this one too. Coun't resist, haha.

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Can you fly stable vertically, horizontally, and on heading?

You have many good points, but you must add a couple to this statement. Being able to fall down the tube while maintaining heading is one thing, but being able to chase/catch the ball after it's been picked up/thrown/hit/burbled is another. On top of that, you have to think to yourself whether you are able to perform these tasks UNDER PRESSURE (ie. if the other guy hits the ball and it zooms away and then your dytter goes off to grab it just as he hits it). When the pressure is on, jumpers have a tendency to get stressed, stiff, zoomy, in a hurry, call it what you will. If the person doesn't have the experience/skill to handle that situation quickly and relaxed, then WHOOPS, the ball is gone.

Just adding to your points there.

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Regardless of the dangers I will address at the end of this post, here is a little opinon (you know you couldn't avoid this...hahah): A warning when I had 'low jumps' would have made little diffrerence. Regardless of any dangers that existed, I made a skyball anyway. Why?...because I wanted to be better. Because coaching is freekin expensive. Because the skygods at my DZ paid little attention to people with a few-hundred jumps less. And because, at the time, a steady and unemotional free-fly partner seemed like a good idea (i.e a skyball).

I also did the same thing. I got my hands on a ball before I had any business jumping one. I only did solos with it at my home airport (not the dz) over unpopulated areas after being unofficially "cleared" by an airport official to do so ("Sure go ahead, just make sure it's over xxx area and don't get yourself killed."). Yes, it's a really fucking small airport. Anyway, I considered that responsible, but I still shouldn't have been doing it. I made a few jumps with it out there, and still have the ball, but that doesn't really make it right.

When you did it, you were responsible. You made an effort to learn about the dangers and how to lessen the risks as much as possible, and on several occasions made the choice not to release it. For that, I commend you.

Still, to simply give every upcoming freeflyer the benefit of the doubt that they will also make themselves that prepared before even considering jumping it or that they will hold the ball if conditions aren't perfect is being FAR too kind to those you don't know.

Let's face facts....there are tons of freeflyers out there who think they are better than what they are. There are many that have never jumped with a ball and do not know how one flies, or what it's like to not have another person compensating for their skills (or lack thereof). Several of these freeflyers think "Hey, I'm good, I can jump one of these things", and go for it without learning what they need to learn, and without getting a proper ballmaster to at least go out with them to show them the ropes of flying with a ball. These kind of people should not have the recipe for a ball, and should not have easy access to one unless it's with an experienced ballmaster, IMHO. To give them freedom to do so is one thing, but to hand them the ball and say "go for it" is a recipe for disaster.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[kjarv 0]

I'm not sure where I fall in this argument, I'm certainly nowhere nearly good enough to fly with a skyball, but it seems to me that not giving the recipe for a good skyball for someone who's determined to jump one makes teh situation worse.

A responsible person, will seek out an instructor/ballmaster, use their ball, then once "proven" may construct their own.

But, an irresponsible person, not freely being given informaiton on construction might take on the project himself, which is certainly more unsafe (too light, too heavy, detached ribbon, strange choices for weight)

It's analagous to not telling someone techniques on landing small fast canopies, because if you tell them, their gonna run out and buy a small fast canopy---- share knowledge.

Best way to go it seems would be:
Find a ballmaster,
This is dangerous,
You could cost people their jobs if not there lives

But, if you're gonna do it anyway here's how it's done, and why...

-kjarv

[WrongWay 0]

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It's analagous to not telling someone techniques on landing small fast canopies, because if you tell them, their gonna run out and buy a small fast canopy---- share knowledge.

If you're looking for an analogy....

Not showing them how to build a ball is the more like a dealer refusing to sell a newbie a small crossbrace because he/she knows that it will be in the wrong hands.

Sharing knowledge in this case would be offering coaching, NOT handing them the means to do something they're not ready for.

(By "they", I'm not referencing to the guys who originally posted this, I'm just speaking in general. I don't know them and I've never flown with them.)

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Vertifly 0]

Hey Jay, That's true too...about the "UNDER PRESSURE" thing. Definitely. At a low altitude 7 or 8 grand, the intensity level rises. It plays a huge part in getting the ball back. Better to have someone around who can chill, approach, chill, grab, and stuff it away. No question!

[Spizzzarko 0]

I thought all you free flyers were supposed to be like the "Hippy Pot Head Love one another group". You guys get to spun up, I'm going back to the swooping forum...

By the way 1.3 lbs with a 12" tail is a fast belly ball. Go from there.

[hookitt 0]

hahaha... Now that's funny. I've read some of your previous "spun up" posts

Hippy pot? Nah... do some sequential VRW and you will find all the finger pointing and bickering has returned :)

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Vertifly 0]

The "Hippy Pot Head Love one another group"...

now that's freakin good.

Perhaps more like the "Yuppy Pot Head Love One Another Group". And only when the lights go down...well, usually when the lights go down.

hippy/yuppy freeflyers gotta look out for others too