Neptune Review....

[kevin922 0]

Okay well after much anticipation, my neptune finally arrived. I only had the chance to jump it 3 times, but below is what my first impressions of the unit were.

Documentation: F
Ease of use: A
Functionality: B
Features: A+
Cost: A+

The unit comes in a box with 2 batteries, a wrist strap, 4 screws (for the wrist strap), 2 zip ties (for the audible mount), a cd, and an audible mount.

Cost: Approximately $250.00


The neptune can be used as an audible (mounted on the helmet) or as a altimeter (mounted on the wrist). I use a protrak for my audible so i decided to use the neptune as my primary altimeter.

I believe all that is on the CD is the documentation for the unit, I accidentally left my CD at the DZ so i'm not positive on that - however if it is the same manual that is found on alti's website, then it is a grave disappointment. In the manual alti states: "This manual will lead you through basic setup. However, we intend that you get to know
your Neptune through using it. The display should be self explanatory." to me that should read "we are too lazy to write good documentation, so you'll just have to figure everything out on your own"
While the basic operation is pretty self explanatory, there are numerous features of the unit which are not as self explanatory. People who buy these units at their DZ will be left with absolutely no printed documentation (whereas the protrak you have plenty of operating instructions in the printed manual which comes with the unit). Not every skydiver has a computer....

Physical Aspects:
The neptune is almost the exact same size as a protrak (see attached picture), I would say it is just a very tiny bit thicker, but other than that they are almost identical. The neptune has 3 buttons on the right side of the display, which allow you to navigate through the menus.

On the side of the unit there is a small IR port which will be used for future upgrades of software as well as data dumps when the alti interpretation software comes out (supposed to be September, and around $50.00). How that is supposed to work I don't know, it of course isn't in the documentation.

Operation:
The 3 buttons on the unit allow for navigation through menus, the top button scrolls up, the bottom button scrolls down and the middle button is "select". When you first put the battery in, the unit powers up and tells you what software revision is installed, mine had version 1.7. After that it goes to the main screen the "DZ" screen or "ground" screen - this basically makes the unit into a $250.00 watch with a thermometer. Kinda nifty.

When you're in the airplane, the unit switches into the airplane mode showing your rate of climb (it does show negative rate of climb when you're going down) and it also tells you the number of minutes to your "target altitude" My target altitude is set to 13,000 feet, I can't seem to figure out how to change that (Reason for good documentation #1). It even says something to the effect of "less than a minute" when you get close to 13,000 feet and "at target altitude" when you get to 13,000 feet.

When you exit the plane it takes a few seconds before it switches to freefall mode, where it shows in big numbers your altitude.. at first glance I thought the unit had messed up, it looked as if it was a second counter counting down. Instead of 13500 it says 13.5 in big numbers. I remember seeing on the website something about a "fun meter" I don't know if that was their cutesy way of saying "this is your altitude" or if the unit has some cutsey meter that tells you when the fun is over with.. (reason for good documentation #2). At any rate, my gut instinct told me that the unit was off, for some reason something just didn't feel right. I deployed and the unit switched to canopy mode (which is neat) it shows your altitude decreasing in increments of 10 feet. So it says "3500" instead of "3.5"

I compared the logbook data with my protrak data on the first jump,

Protrak says i exited at 12,900 neptune is 13080
protrak says deployed at 3800 neptune said 4747
protrak said 108 seconds freefall time neptune is 145

The other 2 jumps I made were closer to the same readings - on one of them the protrak said I deployed at 3500, neptune said 3444 protrak said 94 seconds of freefall, neptune said 93. Readings were equally as close on the other jump.

You can change your watch to 24 hour format, or 12 hour format, change the measurements into metric and also change the temp to Celsius.

There is an "auto/econ" feature which i'm not sure what it does - I’m sure it has something to do with automatically turning the unit off after some set time, but who knows.. (reason for documentation #3)

There are 4 warning groups which contain 3 different altitudes and warning tones, you can select which group you want to use in the menu.

You can also turn the "audible" feature off if you're using the unit as a wrist mount, saving some battery life.

Observations:
One of my biggest gripes so far with the neptune is it records your statistics in feet per second, and you don't have the option of switching to miles per hour, or if you do I can't figure out how (reason for good documentation #4). So have your calculators ready if you want to know your speeds in MPH.

I'd like to know how the neptune decides if you're under canopy or not, protrak has it outlined quite nicely exactly how their unit determines this - neptune does. (reason for good documentation #5).

I think i've found a bug in the neptune. I can't seem to figure out how the backlight is SUPPOSED to work (reason for good documentation #6). I turned it on and nothing happened, i figured out if you hold the top button down pretty hard it'll turn the indiglo light on but when you let go it goes off.. another guy at the dz said he thinks it'll come on when you're on the way to altitude.. I'd hate to find that out for sure on a night jump when i can't figure out how to get the damn thing on. At any rate, the bug I found was once it's enabled and you wait long enough the unit does the automatic turn off - or screen saver I guess.. when the backlight is "enabled" and the screen saver goes on, your unit has effectively locked itself up. the bottom two buttons will make the backlight come on but you can't get the unit to turn back on. You have to take the battery out, put it back in and then turn the unit back on. You loose your date/time info, but luckily your jump information is still there. I've been able to reproduce this twice now.

Another gripe is in the menu system, there is no indication as to what setting each option is currently set to - for instance if you go into a menu option that can either be "enabled" or "disabled" it doesn't indicate what the status currently is. The selection box just goes to the first selection on the list.

The thermometer seems to be inaccurate and slow, I have two fairly accurate digital thermometers in my apartment, both are reading 72.5 and 72.7 respectively - my neptune says it is 78. Big deal? no not really. .just an observation.

The website says that there are limitations in version 1 software, and those are:

Manual Mode
Do NOT use manual mode with Version 1.5 software.

Training Mode is not active in version 1.0-1.5 (it will be included in Version 2 release).



I am not sure what manual mode is supposed to be (reason for good documentation #7) but it evidentially is not supposed to be used in version 1.5, perhaps it works in my version. Training mode also doesn't work, as stated... not a huge big deal as i don't really need training for my altimeter but it would be nice for the unit to ship with the features advertised.

I don't know how the unit is supposed to be manually turned off (reason for documentation #8), so as of now i guess i just wait some unknown amount of time (reason for documentation #9) until the unit shuts off.

The neptune is supposed to calibrate itself automatically to the dz altitude, but if you go to some other dz and want to calibrate it there is a way to do it - how? well i'm not positive, but I think it is in the menu under "dz setup" there is a selection that says "IM On dz" I think that is pretty self explanatory, but I guess it could actually mean something else - so what does that tell us? You got it, reason #10 for documentation.

There is a DZ offset feature in case you're taking off from one location and the dz is actually lower or higher elevation than your takeoff location, you can set this up or down in the neptune - i'm not sure at what point it takes this into consideration but i'm guessing when it switches to freefall mode.

The documentation says the neptune is waterproof, and if you get it in salt water you must take these precautions:

"Maintenance after submersion in salt water
WARNING: Salt deposits must be removed from the filter after submersion in salt
water. Failure to remove salt deposits may lead to the filter becoming blocked
and serious lag may occur in freefall as a result.

To remove salt deposits submerge the altimeter in clean fresh water for at least 30
minutes, agitate occasionally. Remove from water, shake off excess and allow to air
dry. DO NOT attempt to touch the filter"

The documentation of course does not say what the filter is or where to find it. (reason for documentation #11).


Summary:
Overall the unit is easy to use, is packed with features, and is priced to compete with the protrak. I've found from the point I placed my order for the neptune I had been told numerous times exactly when it would ship, I even have a voicemail from alti saying the units were actually shipping about a month and a half ago.. turns out the units really just started shipping within the last 2 weeks. This makes me seriously wonder how long it will take to get revisions out, advertised features working, etc...
If you can get your hands on one, they are definitely nice - if not, then don't fret it they still have some bugs to work out.


If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

[indyz 1]

I've got one jump with a demo Neptune set up as a handmount. I also don't like only being able to see fallrate in feet or meters per second. Also, I couldn't find a minimum or average freefall speed readout in the logbook. Those are the only major problems I've encountered. I got along pretty well with the unit despite having no documentation.

As far as the backlight goes, when I went into the menu and switched it to "enabled", I had to back out of the menus before it actually turned on (FWIW, I tried this on the ride to altitude, so your friend might be right). Beyond that, I didn't mess with it too much.

[kevin922 0]

Quote

I've got one jump with a demo Neptune set up as a handmount. I also don't like only being able to see fallrate in feet or meters per second. Also, I couldn't find a minimum or average freefall speed readout in the logbook. Those are the only major problems I've encountered. I got along pretty well with the unit despite having no documentation.

As far as the backlight goes, when I went into the menu and switched it to "enabled", I had to back out of the menus before it actually turned on (FWIW, I tried this on the ride to altitude, so your friend might be right). Beyond that, I didn't mess with it too much.

Yep I forgot to mention that, as far as the recording goes it tells you what speed you were going at 9K, 6K, 3K and what your MAX was -- all in feet/sec

[Kris 0]

Interesting, Kevin. Mine has version 1.5 software. I can't believe they didn't put the latest revision on it.

Okay....I put 3 jumps on mine this weekend and I loaned it to another guy for a jump.

My biggest gripes would be the fact that it displays the log results in f/s instead of mph and that the numbers do not seem to be averages.

In freefall, the display was amazingly easy to read.

Now....here's my biggest complaint. I do not think they tested the Neptune in a Cessna or with someone doing IAD or S/L instructing.

On one jump, I had a load of 3 students to take up in our Cessna 205. The climb was a bit slow and the Neptune didn't catch it. It showed the MSL going up but it didn't think it was in an airplane until around 600 feet. It then finally went into A/C mode but the altitude was now 600-700 feet off.

OK, no biggie, I'll just use my eyes. I put out the first two students and as I was getting ready to put the third student out, I noticed that the Neptune had gone back into ground mode. Apparently, circling at the same altitude for several minutes made it think it was back on the ground and it didn't do squat in freefall.

I will definitely be contacting Alti-2 on Monday.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[betzilla 56]

My biggest gripe would be that after selling one yesterday, it was returned after just one jump -- no longer functioning correctly. The guy returned it and bought a Pro Track instead.

[kevin922 0]

Quote

My biggest gripe would be that after selling one yesterday, it was returned after just one jump -- no longer functioning correctly. The guy returned it and bought a Pro Track instead.

What was the problem? Would it not turn on? I take it he was using it as an audible?


Also Kris, post what you hear.. i'd be interested in knowing what they say.

[betzilla 56]

Quote

What was the problem? Would it not turn on? I take it he was using it as an audible?

It did not beep on his jump, although the display on the screen clearly indicates that it is set up as an audible. Then after landing, he could not access the menu screen (I can't either). Moreover, the function that shuts off the on-screen display after 30 mintues doesn't work either.

Not a good first experience with the Neptune.

[kevin922 0]

Quote

Quote

What was the problem? Would it not turn on? I take it he was using it as an audible?

It did not beep on his jump, although the display on the screen clearly indicates that it is set up as an audible. Then after landing, he could not access the menu screen (I can't either). Moreover, the function that shuts off the on-screen display after 30 mintues doesn't work either.

Not a good first experience with the Neptune.

Do you know what version of the software is on there?

[betzilla 56]

Quote

Do you know what version of the software is on there?

No, I don't know. But as an equipment seller, I expect that a product will arrive at my store in its final version and fully functional.

I love Alti-2's viusal altimeters and customer service, but I'm annoyed with the Neptune, based on my current experience.

[betzilla 56]

I just talked with Kathy from Alti-2, and she has again blown me away with her fine customer service.

The questionable Neptune we have here is on its way home for a checkup/repair/replacement. I should mention, that she called ME about it, after following this thread, and offered to pay the shipping costs.

I have to say, although I didn't play with this one much (I want it to be set up the same way when Kathy receives it as when the jumper here used it), it seems pretty easy to navigate -- I don't think I'd need to stare at the owner's manual to change a jump number on the Neptune, like I do with my Pro-Track .

[kevin922 0]

Quote

I just talked with Kathy from Alti-2, and she has again blown me away with her fine customer service.

The questionable Neptune we have here is on its way home for a checkup/repair/replacement. I should mention, that she called ME about it, after following this thread, and offered to pay the shipping costs.

I have to say, although I didn't play with this one much (I want it to be set up the same way when Kathy receives it as when the jumper here used it), it seems pretty easy to navigate -- I don't think I'd need to stare at the owner's manual to change a jump number on the Neptune, like I do with my Pro-Track .

Well like I said, the basic operations are pretty self explanitory but doesn't excuse the fact that people who are spending their money on equipment want (or should want) to know everything there is to know about the equipment ESPECIALLY when it is something you depend on with your life.

Keep us posted..

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

but doesn't excuse the fact that people who are spending their money on equipment want (or should want) to know everything there is to know about the equipment ESPECIALLY when it is something you depend on with your life.

You're placing an awful lot of importance on that altimeter if it is indeed something you depend upon with your life. Just something to think about....

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[pilotdave 0]

Any idea if the neptune hand mount uses the same size rubber ring (for your fingers) as the altimaster 3? I personally find the 3's very uncomfortable (too big and thick). The neptune's ground mode sounds like a nice touch since I don't wear a watch all day at the DZ, but if the hand mount is uncomfortable, i wouldn't wear it either.

By the way, thanks for the review. My plan for a while has been to get one AFTER reading a bunch of positive reviews. I'll wait. It's sounding like the hardware is alright but the software needs a lot of work. I'm interested to see how this develops.

Dave

[kevin922 0]

Dave, it appears to be the exact same wristband that they use with their other alti's. So yes, big rubber ring..

Here is a response from Roger Allen from Alti re my observations (posted with his permission):

Quote

The next version of software (version 1 maintenance release) will
change f/s to mph (in the logbook) based on feedback we have received,
this
will be posted on the website within 2 weeks. If we get requests for
both
(user selectable) then that will be included in version 2.

2 Auto/Econ mode is a menu entry that was used before we implemented
the 30 minute screen timeout. At this point it does nothing, Neptunes
are
always in Auto mode. However, we are testing a "deep sleep" mode to
conserve
power even further for jumpers who use the unit very infrequently, this
will
be the "Econ mode" (that's why we left the menu entry).

3 Backlight lockup - we are attempting to reproduce that here (we'll
know in 30 mins) and assuming that we get the same result it will be
fixed
in the maintenance release.

4 Backlight - the following is an excerpt from the updated manual that
will be posted on our website tonight:

Backlight

An electroluminescent backlight is included for night jumps,. Note, use
of
the backlight will shorten battery life, we recommend that you leave it
disabled unless you are making a night jump.

The menu sequence to enable the backlight is Menu > System > Options 1
>
Backlight > Enable. The backlight icon will appear on the ground screen
to
confirm that it is activated.

When enabled, the backlight will stay on for 3 seconds every time you
press
a button, and will stay on when the unit is in freefall or canopy modes

5 Shut-Off. Currently there is no "off" function, we are concerned
that the power conserve mode (no display), could be confused with
"off". If
we get requests for this feature we will re-activate the menu entry (it
was
implemented on early versions).

6 Menu confirmation - The version 2 menu system is exactly as you
request.

He also sent me an email saying a major update to the manual would be on the web tonight.

Customer service is definately much better.... i just hope software revisions that are "out in 2 weeks" don't take 2 months..

They were able to reproduce my backlight lockup, but said it only affected some units so they are trying to narrow the problem down.

[Kris 0]

I had an e-mail waiting from Roger at Alti-2 this morning requesting my number so that he could contact me about the issues I wrote about in the forums. To say I was impressed would be an understatement. I went ahead and called him at 10am and we spoke at length about everything.

He confirmed that they will be going to MPH instead of f/s in the next release which is a big relief. As a skydiver, I usually don't carry a slide rule or calculator in my gear bag.

As for the speed readouts for the various altitudes here is an example, to get the reading for 6K, an average is taken from 5.5K - 6.5K which is a 1000' "slice of time". It is a smaller sampling window but they chose to use it because it is more indicative of actual accurate speed then an average over a longer period of time. Roger did confirm that when the unit logs to the logbook software coming out in the future that it will show the speed for any part of the skydive that you want to look at.

Now, as for my issue...I gave Roger full details of the jump and airplane ride for the load I was on where my Neptune failed to measure takeoff and then reset itself later. I shipped my unit back to him today (on their dime) for overnight delivery and they will check it out for accuracy, recreate the flight I took (which further impressed me) in an attempt to duplicate the issue, and then they will send my unit back to me by this Friday with the latest software revisions installed.

I also asked about the manual and he agreed that they could have done better with it and are releasing a fuller version this evening.

All in all, I am impressed with their initiative to contact us first, their willingness to work on these issues ASAP, and the fact that at no time did Alti-2 try to play the "blame game".

The Neptune is a very high-end device in that it requires firmware. As such, there will be a period of adjustment while they get all of the bugs worked out of the code and their sampling algorithms. Speaking from experience, you can test and re-test for things in a lab all day long but users in the field will try things or get into situations that your designers couldn't conceive of in their worst drunken nightmares.

I'll let everyone know how my Neptune works out after I get it back and try it this weekend.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[kevin922 0]

The new neptune manual is out, 100% improvement over the old one..

i'll bump that F up to a B+ or an A.. still reading over it.

[Kris 0]

Quote

The new neptune manual is out, 100% improvement over the old one.

Agreed. I just got finished reading it myself and I am much happier with the operational information.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[indyz 1]

Quote

Agreed. I just got finished reading it myself and I am much happier with the operational information.

And a ditto from me. My major complaints have been satisfied, and I'm totally blown away by Alti-2's service in this case. My order is going in tommorrow.

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

Dave, it appears to be the exact same wristband that they use with their other alti's. So yes, big rubber ring..

I also got an email from Roger Allen (which impresses me VERY much) saying the O-ring and hand mount are the same as on the Galaxy, but will be made smaller and ligher in the near future since the neptune weighs so much less. My small fingers thank him.

Dave

[webracer 0]

Since Alti-2 reads this, I have a suggestion.
I would like this as a vibration alarm instead of audible, that way I could sew a window in my glove (on the back of my hand), and use the visual and alarm modes. I currently have Altimaster IIs on each rig at r.h. leg harness, Pro Dytters in each helmet, and Protrack on my ankle for logging. I do not wear a bulky altimeter on my hand. I always wear gloves though, and sewing a window in would be awesome.
Otherwise I'll stick with my current setup.
Troy

Troy

I am now free to exercise my downward mobility.

[PhreeZone 15]

Could you really tell a vibration apart from flapping material?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Kris 0]

Quote

Could you really tell a vibration apart from flapping material?

Or even normal windblast. That would have to be one helluva powerful motor with a rather heavy weight on the end to get your attention in freefall. And with that would come a rather large size.

In short, I don't think you're going to see one that vibrates any time soon.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Kris 0]

My Neptune Update:

Roger from Alti-2 called me this morning. They were able to simulate the error I had last weekend. It was a problem with the algorithm that handles switching the unit from ground mode to aircraft mode.

From what Roger told me, v1.7 (and later) code does not share this issue. I will have a Neptune (with clear-blue case, thanks, Rog!) waiting for me on Friday with v1.8 code which will also fix a backlight issue and (if it's ready in time) should also have the MPH reading instead of Ft/s in the logbook.

I really have to commend Roger and his team. For a 4-person company, they have really been bending over backwards to meet our needs in a positive manner and productively respond to criticism/requests.

The only other suggestion that I forgot to mention to him would be this: When updating the webpage with new code revisions for download, it would be nice if they would also include a change-list which would show what was corrected from one revision to the next.

I can't wait to play with my Neptune this weekend.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[webracer 0]

I don't think it would have to be much, if any larger. Look at the vibrators put in cellphone batteries, they hardly affect the size.
I think I could feel it, but if'n I couldn't, I can still see the ground (provided I'm not on my head).
I think it would work, but don't know if there is enough market for it.

Troy

I am now free to exercise my downward mobility.

[arlo 0]

Quote

I really have to commend Roger and his team. For a 4-person company, they have really been bending over backwards to meet our needs in a positive manner and productively respond to criticism/requests.

right on, kris. most people think alti-2 is a large manufacturing facility with alot of people working there. they are indeed a SMALL company with outstanding products. way to give constructive feedback, kris.
Generally speaking: I would venture to guess that a HUGE amount of the delayed release time was spent on the phone answering the same question of "is it done yet? is it done yet?"

No product is going to be perfect upon release, so revisions/updates are inevitable. It is nice to see Rog and the gang answering everybody's questions in an expedient manner and to most people's satistfaction. but as usual, you can't please everyone.

As an aside, I don't think that the bashing they received at the initial review was warranted. Publically hammering a company by calling them "lazy" isn't (IMHO) the correct way to go about things. Maybe they just thought that since most people never read a manual front to back, that a long drawn out one wasn't necessary(guys read instructions? yeah RIGHT! ) . That was proven to not be the case, but I think a simple phone call or email stating this would have sufficed. If they lost business because of being deemed "lazy", that's less money that goes into the company...which could result in fewer products becoming available to us in the future. Think before you slam. those guy at alti-2 have been busting their asses since before symposium on this project ( i know because i'm in there almost weekly) so being called "lazy" is just bullshit.

now i will kindly step back in line to receive the next batch of neptunes for my customers who have patiently waited on them.
blues,
arlo