Best Trackers

[Vertifly 0]

Ok, your on. I won't be in Cali any time soon either, but I'll keep it in mind.

[rehmwa 2]

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I think most will reckonise tracking as per danwayland's photo, belly flyers arching and staying behind the rabbit. Also, some have . . .

You are full of it in this statement. The reason those guys are belly down in that pic is likely because the lead flyer (on his back) is giving a poor lead by having too much vertical and not enough horizontal speed (his reverse arch is HUGE). As for what type of flyers those guys prefer, how can you tell if they are primarily RW or FF'er from that picture (other than they are wearing FF suits)?

Tracking dives are anything but. Usually since it's slowed down to maintain proximity. That's not the best way to "practice." Try telling someone who specializes in big way belly jumps that they don't practice tracking, I bet he'd look at you and just shake his head.

Your pictures do show excellent tracking forms, though, as demonstrated by both RW and FF'ers when you watch those that are good at it. These guys are likely very good at it.

Again, great jumpers have the potential to be great trackers, regardless of their primary discipling. (Except CrW, I don't see the link there).

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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[You are full of it in this statement. The reason those guys are belly down in that pic is likely because the lead flyer (on his back) is giving a poor lead by having too much vertical and not enough horizontal speed (his reverse arch is HUGE). As for what type of flyers those guys prefer, how can you tell if they are primarily RW or FF'er from that picture (other than they are wearing FF suits)?

Tracking dives are anything but. Usually since it's slowed down to maintain proximity.

Those guys with the huge arch in their track are OBVIOUSLY freefliers if you were to look at their suits. I agree that they had to arch hard to get down to the leader who is has a huge back arch.

Also, I agree that the pics that skyjuggler used are great tracking pics, but isn't that the way that most people track regardless of discipline? I am very new to skydiving, but I've been told that this is the way that I track (dearched). I was taught to have a dearched flat and fast track by an RW instructor, MJ, from Elsinore.

Edited: I still think that very good skydivers usually have very good tracks, despite their disciplines.

[skyjuggler 0]

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You are full of it in this statement. The reason those guys are belly down in that pic is likely because the lead flyer (on his back) is giving a poor lead by having too much vertical and not enough horizontal speed.

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Full of what? Either my english is poor or you are looking for something to be aggrieved about and have picked up on something which I communicated very badly. I am not bashing flatflyers, nor do I doubt the need for excellent separation on big ways. The purpose of the thread was to converse with others, share experiences and see what others think. Nor do I state weather the photo from danwayland is of jumpers from either persuasion. How do I know what disciplines they do, I think I left my crystal ball in the cupboard. It's just a nice shot depicting someone’s tracking jump.

Tracking obviously means alot to different people. However anyone can open the throttle on a motorbike in a straight and go fast but it takes alot of skill and experience to handle a bike and ride corners well. I think if people take the time and effort to explore something in skydiving normally they get good at it. Practicing by just going straight at break off can hardly be as good as a full jump which will be different every time. You even state "specializes in big way belly jumps", well the flyers I know who tend to specialise in tracking jumps are freeflyers. Once again, not bashing flat flyers just explaining my experiences. And I am sure many jumpers do both flat and free, and cross over, and good flyers exist in both disciplines, and a good skydiver is a good skydiver despite their chosen discipline......do I need a waiver to cover my personal views or am I still full of it?

"Usually since it's slowed down to maintain proximity." Hence you can fly faster and closer most likely if you are a 'better tracker' and do more. i.e. Like the photos of Aria and the X-Fest demonstrate.

From my experience I don't often see flat flyers participating in tracking jumps. Hence why I share my views and inquire about others.

Also not my pictures, credits to Aria and Flyboyz.

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[rehmwa 2]

That's all I'm saying.

VSG you have more avatars than days of the week. All are still fine.

(Yes, I am kissing up, I may need a 4th someday)

edit: Juggler - methinks you take offense too easily, have fun

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skyjuggler 0]

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I agree that the pics that skyjuggler used are great tracking pics, but isn't that the way that most people track regardless of discipline?

The jumps the photos demonstrate are really difficult to do and I am sure that not everyone can do them. Ippo and Alex did over 1000 tracking jumps together I believe to get better. They do some very hard stuff. The group jump from the X-Fest is also very difficult, they are flying their slots, nearly all on head level and in the angle which the leader has chosen.

I am sure people are taught to de arch when tracking, but as everyone knows, often what they think they are doing in the sky is not always the case, hence the use of video and coaching to pass on advice.

I feel a little persecuted here. If anyone else would like to help out great, or perhaps I am a truely on my own in my views!!!! Once again, I am sure that there are great belly flyers who track like demons, just in my experience I don't see the flat dudes working on stuff like in the photos.

[kallend 1,633]

The best belly flying trackers are getting 1:1 glide ratios. I haven't heard of back-trackers getting this much.

I've been on flock dives with back trackers, docked, and then left them behind (on my belly), and I'm not the greatest tracker. Maybe they weren't trying.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diablopilot 2]

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Also, I agree that the pics that skyjuggler used are great tracking pics, but isn't that the way that most people track regardless of discipline?

Negative.

It's been said here already that good skydivers are able to become good tracker no mater what disiplin they practice.

A majority of freeflyers do not concentrate on good tracking skill, but instead use their greater vertical speed to produce horizontal drive at the botom end of a skydive. It can be seen by someone who takes the center by "going flat" and watches at breakoff. The other flyers track away from center like a bat outta hell for about 3-4 seconds, start falling straight down again, and then dump. A good flyer keeps going, and does not loose nearly as much altitude doing it, therefore leaving them under canopy much higher for the same amount of horizontal seperation.

Flat flyers who do not find a good tracking form can be picked out as they are the ones closest to center horizontaly, furthest (low) from center verticaly on deployment, and on the bench during bigways. Flatflyers do not have the benifit of a massive amount of energy to convert into horizontal motion, however they have time on their side since they are falling slower.

Tracking dives are fun and teach things like heading and altitude control as well as center point focus, they usually are not GREAT tools for learning a truely efficient track. Too many participants get discouraged by failure early, so organizers/leades usualy back off their performance to the common denominator. Good tracking is a skill that is improved upon by necessity. Picking out one individual on break off and trying to match or better their performance every time you skydive is what makes you better. Increased awareness both body and enviorment makes you better. And unfortunately, close calls on deployment serve to inspire one to get better.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[freakydiver 0]

I've won a couple of tracking contests and I do both types of flying. My vote would be for those fliers who do both disciplines.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[mr2mk1g 10]

Is it possible we are talking a little at cross terms here?

Would a freeflyer define being good at tracking as being able to move around in a track relative to other jumpers while matching their speed, possibly to the detriment of horizontal travel?

Would a bellyflyer define being a good at tracking as being able to go as fast and as flat as possible giving them the maximum separation from a group?

Is it therefore possible that different aspects of tracking are important to each respective discipline? If so people arguing over which discipline has the “best” trackers is a little difficult, as there are different standards to be applied. A good friend once said, (admittedly while drunk): “best is such a relative word”… and you know what… he was right.

[rehmwa 2]

I had this discussion in a PM yesterday

i.e.,

is the poll about:

tracking or,
tracking dives

For some it would definitely change their answer

Edit: BTW I think SJuggler meant the second whe he set up the poll, and most everyone else was discussing the first - most anyone would agree that "tracking dives" would be the area typically assigned to freeflyers so the only poll making sense would be the first - communication is a tricky thing.....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[fedykin 0]

RW flyers have no constant point of reference to determine speed, lift, angle and therefore will find it very very difficult to assess these determinants.
trackings is a discipline in itself in freeflying, just a afterthough in RW.
some tracking dives in the US can be a bit slow if its a big way so that everyone can be there, but try a track dive in europe with an angle and the speed and angle can be a bit silly ie... very very fast.
Freeflyers generally speaking, are better as in more skilled and more aware trackers

ALASKA JON ROCKS!!!!!
I ROCK!!!!

[NeedToJump 0]

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RW flyers have no constant point of reference to determine speed, lift, angle and therefore will find it very very difficult to assess these determinants.
trackings is a discipline in itself in freeflying, just a afterthough in RW.

After doing a big way during a staged breakoff RW flyers can see the base and how fast they are moving away from it both horizontally and vertically. Tracking is definitely not an afterthought when leaving a 100 way, it's a life saving skill for the tracker and everyone else around.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[StevePhelps 0]

Tha's sortof like asking who sucks the worst?
Detroit Lions or Texas Rangers

[ranchhand28 0]

Tracking is a discipline all in its own. Regardless if you’re a belly flyer or a freeflyer, when you get on a tracking dive, you’re a tracker. And for that you will require a little knowledge of both RW and FF.

When you’re tracking away from a RW formation, what you want to do is track as flat and fast as possible, on heading. For that, you just simply have to use a completely different position than that that you use for a tracking dive, where the purpose is to track relative in formation. Well… in that case you’ll be adjusting your position so many different times it’s even tough to describe: faster, slower, turning, arching, floating, docking, and so forth…

I like to think that there are good trackers -- irrespective of their original discipline of choice, i.e. RW or FF.

I think of tracking as a tricky formation skydive. From the moment you exit the airplane you have to know how you will be presenting your body, how and what you will be doing to get to the formation, be constantly adjusting your position to the characteristics of that particular dive (steep, floaty, etc.), and of course, know how you will be breaking off, doing barrel rolls, etc….

I’d have to go with Hookitt… there’s no answer to this poll.

-t

[cutaway1 3]

We are getting around 80 seconds on tracking dives even without suits from 14,000. I think of tracking dives, at least the ones that are the most fun, as slow vertical desend dives, and extra long dives. If you track slow horizontally, you get less time, and its not as challenging. If you do alot of tracking dives, you certainly get better at it, most people that begin tracking dives go low at first because they are not tracking flat. And if someone is really good, they can track fast on their back, but faster on their belly, fer sure.
Aloha

SCR-21

[sneaky 0]

dude you`re the best tracker !!!