bigfritz 0 #1 October 7, 2003 Whoa!! I went skydiving today and I tried freeflying... I got into a head down position. IT ROCKED! Oh man, oh man... freeflying rocks! Check out this video of today. I don't freefly through the whole video, but throughout the middle of it I did. With 26 jumps and 1 lost shoe, how do you think I did? http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/tom_1st_freefly.mpg (57mb) I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight... too pumped! Wow, alrighty, I'll catch ya later. Tom ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #2 October 7, 2003 I think thats how I felt after my first sit attempt 20 jumps ago. And you know, come to think of it I'm still feeling like that! I hope it doesnt fade! blue skies bro! --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surf4life11 0 #3 October 7, 2003 That was a great video. Looked like you had a blast, I just started trying to freefly and the feeling is awesome each time I get something down. Blue skies!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #4 October 8, 2003 QuoteWhoa!! I went skydiving today and I tried freeflying... I got into a head down position. IT ROCKED! Oh man, oh man... freeflying rocks! Check out this video of today. I don't freefly through the whole video, but throughout the middle of it I did. With 26 jumps and 1 lost shoe, how do you think I did? http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/tom_1st_freefly.mpg (57mb) I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight... too pumped! Wow, alrighty, I'll catch ya later. Tom Not bad! You'll remember this jump for a long time. Great video. Try to keep eye contact, at all times, with the person you jump with. Whenever the wind pushes you, and try to turn you around, just fight back to keep that eye contact. This jump being your first freefly jump...... Can we say: BEER btw: Tighten those lace, and try to keep your shoes on your feet! Have fun and stay safe. Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #5 October 8, 2003 QuoteNot bad! You'll remember this jump for a long time. That's true. Great job dude! I remember doing my first head-down attempt on a visit to Z-Hills. It was a solo. The memorable sensation was similar to falling inside of an encapsulating bubble of air; that is, compared to belly-flying. Following those freefly jumps, I went home, made X-Keys my home DZ, and made mega-jumps so that I could get good at freefly. Wooohooo! You're right there, keep up the flying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfritz 0 #6 October 8, 2003 Sweet! Thanks for the feedback, guys! QuoteThis jump being your first freefly jump...... Can we say: BEER I'm only 16, so no beer just yet.....hahah that's funny. Here's some pics that were just developed. http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/freefly_10_06_03/7.jpg http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/freefly_10_06_03/8.jpg http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/freefly_10_06_03/9.jpg http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/freefly_10_06_03/10.jpg I have two questions... Where should my hands be at my level of head down freeflying? I heard to keep them out to my side like I did in the pic 8.jpg, and I also heard to do just like I did in pic 8.jpg, but to cup my arms a little bit, too. Would it be easier to keep them right on my side so my legs cause more drag? Or does it help a more to keep your hands out? And one thing I just noticed is that I'm looking down at the ground instead of straight in front of me. Will moving my head like that cause me to be less stable? Thanks! Tom ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #7 October 8, 2003 Nice man, I am going to try that this weekend!! Watching that video got me pumped, I don't even think I am going to be able to sleep. Awesome job man, I can't wait till its my turn to try that!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfritz 0 #8 October 8, 2003 Sweet! Go for it!! Good luck! ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfritz 0 #9 October 8, 2003 For me, I just thought** Where do they hide the "edit post" button? ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #10 October 8, 2003 The MOST Important thing (besides pulling) is: Get a good sit-fly position before you get on your head. It will save you a lot of trouble down the road. Edit: Not trying to hijack your thread or anything, just wanted to give a little tip in case you hadn't heard this from someone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfritz 0 #11 October 8, 2003 QuoteGet a good sit-fly position before you get on your head. It will save you a lot of trouble down the road. How so? I can hold a stable sit-fly, but I'm just curious how someone would have a harder time learning to sit-fly if they fly head down first. Are different habits formed? QuoteEdit: Not trying to hijack your thread or anything, just wanted to give a little tip in case you hadn't heard this from someone else. It's cool, anything that will help us beginning freeflyers is great. ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #12 October 8, 2003 QuoteQuoteGet a good sit-fly position before you get on your head. It will save you a lot of trouble down the road How so? I can hold a stable sit-fly, but I'm just curious how someone would have a harder time learning to sit-fly if they fly head down first. Are different habits formed? It is not a matter of which one you could learn faster or easier. The head down position is generally much less stable and almost always produces higher speeds than sit flying. The thing is that you dont want to go from your head to your belly and lose a shitload of speed. This causes you to pop "up" relatively or cork. This can be extremely dangerous when jumping with other people. The main point is that you want to have a stable base in your sit so that you have something to go to when your head down attempt isnt really working. Going from your head to medium speed sit will not cause you to lose as much speed as you would if you went to your belly. There is so much involved with this. You need to chat with some experienced freeflyers at your DZ. I am sure they would love to go through safety issues with you. Also I am sure that there are some other people on the forums that will explain it better than I will. I mentioned this because I did not see you in a sit fly position in your video. And once again, not trying to ruin your thread. Edit: And dont trust a chest mounted altimeter in a head down position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigfritz 0 #13 October 8, 2003 Ah, I see. A freeflyer at my dropzone told me the exact same thing. I thought you meant if you learned headdown first, you'd have problems learning to sit-fly. Nevermind! I never use the chest mounted altimeter, just the gear I rent for the time being has them on there. Doesn't the chest mounted altimeter also get messed up if you're on your back because of the burble? One more question... If I spread my legs apart sissors like, instead of out to each side, will I get the same effect, or will that make me less stable at my stage of freeflying? ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #14 October 8, 2003 Tom First off, welcome to the darkside and nice vid (I'm assuming this was your first videod jump?). I find the darkside to be a whole lot more self fulfilling than RW, but the darkside does not come easy and if not approached right could hinder your long term progression. In otherwords don't rush it, you have the rest of your life (especially being so young) to become a bad ass freeflier. 1) As a freeflier, it's sort of weird to be saying this, but don't ignore RW in the early stages of your skydiving career. RW does teach you to fly relative to others and as a low jump number skydiver as well as an aspiring freeflier, you could be losing valuable experience in learning how to fly relative to others. I'm not saying don't try to learn to be a freeflier (freeflying rocks), just don't ignore RW jumps. 2) It is imperative for you to learn how to sit. Head down is for sure the glamorous side to freeflying, but just like a belly jump (arching), the sit is the neutral recovery position while freeflying. When something goes wrong, freefliers must be able to go to a sit. Learning to sit isn't always easy (it wasn't for me), but the safety of yourself and others you jump with could depend on this mandatory skill. 3) When first learning to freefly, you need to do solo jumps, align yourself perpendicular to the flight line (it's so easy to be cruising across jump run while head down and not even know it) and never spend more than 5 consecutive seconds head down (in other words flip back into a sit after five seconds and make sure you are oriented perpendicular and that you have not lost altitude awareness). 4) Do not lose altitude awareness while head down. Use an audible but don't rely on it. Watch the horizon and learn what 5000 feet looks like, what 4000 feet looks like and especially what 3000 feet looks like. 5) Find the tube while head down. Successful head down freeflying is achieved when neither your head, upper torso or legs are catching a lot of air. When doing your head down solos and during your five seconds, purposely expose the back of your body and the front of your body to the relative wind and learn what that feels like. Then as the jump progresses, try to narrow down the inputs until you feel no wind pressure on your front or your back. When you have done this, you have found the tube and this is where head down freefying takes place. But once again while learning, don't spend more than five seconds head down. 6) The key to successful freeflying is to relax. The more you fight your body, the harder it will be. 7) Once you think you've got a good sit. Go out on a jump with a more experienced freeflier to determine if there are any backsliding issues and see how well you can fly relative to the other person. 8) Successful freeflying is achieved by being legs dominant. It's okay to use you hands and your arms while on a jump. But freeflying really is about flying your legs. Relax, have fun and be safe. You have your whole life to get better. But don't ignore RW at this stage of your skydiving career and please make sure you can sit before you go head down. All of this was told to myself and sometimes I listened and sometimes I didn't. But now that I have a few experiences under my belt, I recognize why these things are said to new freefliers. Freeflying rocks, but it must be respected. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sssbc99 0 #15 October 8, 2003 QuoteTom 7) Once you think you've got a good sit. Go out on a jump with a more experienced freeflier to determine if there are any backsliding issues and see how well you can fly relative to the other person. This is probably one of the best things that he said for someone at your stage. When I first started to sit-fly, I thought this is cool, I finally found a good position(what I thought was a good position). I thought I was doing well until I did some two ways and a couple of coach jumps. That was when I realized I was backsliding. With a new sport like this, there are some many new feelings you are dealing with that it is hard to feel what is really going on, even if you have read all of the articles in the world and think that you have fully grasped it. Adrenaline almost always clouds your thoughts and feelings. Quote8) Successful freeflying is achieved by being legs dominant. It's okay to use you hands and your arms while on a jump. But freeflying really is about flying your legs. Another very good point. Keep it in the back of your head that you shouldnt rely on your arms too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #16 October 8, 2003 Tom, there's a good chance I'll come out to play soon. If you see my suit, Predominaly Black with Red, and Neon Yellow stripes, Come bug me. I'll try to remembe to let you know when I'm coming out your way. It's possibly even this weekend.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sssbc99 0 #17 October 8, 2003 QuoteOne more question... If I spread my legs apart sissors like, instead of out to each side, will I get the same effect, or will that make me less stable at my stage of freeflying? Just to reiterate one point of canuck's. Even though head down is fun and it is the "glamorous" position, it comes with time and lots of practice, AFTER learning to sit fly. Trust, you will be much better off if you just focus on a good head up position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #18 October 8, 2003 QuoteCome bug me. One day I will have to come out and do those coach jumps we talked of in the past with you. I'm getting better (I've recently done some very good jumps with some bad ass freefliers) and have resolved some of my fast fall rate issues by wearing a big baggy XXXL sweat shirt. But I'm still learning and have yet to be accepted into the Jedi freeflying school (unlike a friend or two who are naturals at this ever so challenging skydiving discipline). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigfritz 0 #19 October 8, 2003 Thanks for all the info, Steve! QuoteTom, there's a good chance I'll come out to play soon. If you see my suit, Predominaly Black with Red, and Neon Yellow stripes, Come bug me. I'll try to remembe to let you know when I'm coming out your way. It's possibly even this weekend. Awesome I always wear my beige cargo pants with a white shirt, too. ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigfritz 0 #20 October 8, 2003 QuoteQuoteCome bug me.I'm getting better (I've recently done some very good jumps with some bad ass freefliers) and have resolved some of my fast fall rate issues by wearing a big baggy XXXL sweat shirt. I was reading this Pat Works book "The Art of vRW," and they said a big baggy sweatshirt is better than just a t-shirt. I think he was talking about freeflying in general, neither headdown or standing up specifically. I would have thought the sweatshirt would cause more drag and slow you down? Edit: Forgot to add... I was wondering if it would help me at all to wear a big sweatshirt? ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #21 October 8, 2003 I'm not a small person (about 200 lbs naked) and most of the people I jump with are smaller than I am. So from day one of my skydiving career, I've had fast fall rate issues I've needed to learn to overcome. At Rantoul I asked a small yet bad ass freeflier that I got to jump what I could do to slow down, and his response was "baggy clothing". So now I find that by using my XXXL sweat shirt, I can go head down with smaller people and the chances of me going low are reduced. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigfritz 0 #22 October 9, 2003 I encoded that video better, it's only 18mb now. I'll upload it to skydivingmovies.com, too. http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/videos/tom_1st_freefly.avi ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites OzoneJunkie 0 #23 October 9, 2003 As far as losing a shoe: I use "toggles" on my shoelaces. I think that's the technical name for them. You see them on pants drawstrings - 2 strings go thru. To loosen, you press a button on the toggle, which pushes in the spring-loaded button. I find these much better than just tying the laces. Just thread the laces thru the toggles, leave about 3 or 4 inches excess (when the toggles are in place, pulling your laces tight), and cut off the extra. Put 2 knots in each laces, to keep them from pulling thru. Much faster/easier than tying, especially if you double knot your laces. EDIT: you can find toggles at sewing stores Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #24 October 9, 2003 Great Idea! Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #25 October 9, 2003 Hey, cool pix! I can't see the vid on my computer, but i'm sure it rocks, too:) I'm just learning sit fly right now. It is major fun. I really want to learn head down, but i'm told I need to work on up down fwd bkwd, and getting into and out of sit very easily first. I am working on standing up right now and am spinning a little. Anyhow, have a blast with your freeflying, I can't wait 'til I can fly sit, stand and head down and do cartwheels n stuff like the pros, this is great! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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bigfritz 0 #13 October 8, 2003 Ah, I see. A freeflyer at my dropzone told me the exact same thing. I thought you meant if you learned headdown first, you'd have problems learning to sit-fly. Nevermind! I never use the chest mounted altimeter, just the gear I rent for the time being has them on there. Doesn't the chest mounted altimeter also get messed up if you're on your back because of the burble? One more question... If I spread my legs apart sissors like, instead of out to each side, will I get the same effect, or will that make me less stable at my stage of freeflying? ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #14 October 8, 2003 Tom First off, welcome to the darkside and nice vid (I'm assuming this was your first videod jump?). I find the darkside to be a whole lot more self fulfilling than RW, but the darkside does not come easy and if not approached right could hinder your long term progression. In otherwords don't rush it, you have the rest of your life (especially being so young) to become a bad ass freeflier. 1) As a freeflier, it's sort of weird to be saying this, but don't ignore RW in the early stages of your skydiving career. RW does teach you to fly relative to others and as a low jump number skydiver as well as an aspiring freeflier, you could be losing valuable experience in learning how to fly relative to others. I'm not saying don't try to learn to be a freeflier (freeflying rocks), just don't ignore RW jumps. 2) It is imperative for you to learn how to sit. Head down is for sure the glamorous side to freeflying, but just like a belly jump (arching), the sit is the neutral recovery position while freeflying. When something goes wrong, freefliers must be able to go to a sit. Learning to sit isn't always easy (it wasn't for me), but the safety of yourself and others you jump with could depend on this mandatory skill. 3) When first learning to freefly, you need to do solo jumps, align yourself perpendicular to the flight line (it's so easy to be cruising across jump run while head down and not even know it) and never spend more than 5 consecutive seconds head down (in other words flip back into a sit after five seconds and make sure you are oriented perpendicular and that you have not lost altitude awareness). 4) Do not lose altitude awareness while head down. Use an audible but don't rely on it. Watch the horizon and learn what 5000 feet looks like, what 4000 feet looks like and especially what 3000 feet looks like. 5) Find the tube while head down. Successful head down freeflying is achieved when neither your head, upper torso or legs are catching a lot of air. When doing your head down solos and during your five seconds, purposely expose the back of your body and the front of your body to the relative wind and learn what that feels like. Then as the jump progresses, try to narrow down the inputs until you feel no wind pressure on your front or your back. When you have done this, you have found the tube and this is where head down freefying takes place. But once again while learning, don't spend more than five seconds head down. 6) The key to successful freeflying is to relax. The more you fight your body, the harder it will be. 7) Once you think you've got a good sit. Go out on a jump with a more experienced freeflier to determine if there are any backsliding issues and see how well you can fly relative to the other person. 8) Successful freeflying is achieved by being legs dominant. It's okay to use you hands and your arms while on a jump. But freeflying really is about flying your legs. Relax, have fun and be safe. You have your whole life to get better. But don't ignore RW at this stage of your skydiving career and please make sure you can sit before you go head down. All of this was told to myself and sometimes I listened and sometimes I didn't. But now that I have a few experiences under my belt, I recognize why these things are said to new freefliers. Freeflying rocks, but it must be respected. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #15 October 8, 2003 QuoteTom 7) Once you think you've got a good sit. Go out on a jump with a more experienced freeflier to determine if there are any backsliding issues and see how well you can fly relative to the other person. This is probably one of the best things that he said for someone at your stage. When I first started to sit-fly, I thought this is cool, I finally found a good position(what I thought was a good position). I thought I was doing well until I did some two ways and a couple of coach jumps. That was when I realized I was backsliding. With a new sport like this, there are some many new feelings you are dealing with that it is hard to feel what is really going on, even if you have read all of the articles in the world and think that you have fully grasped it. Adrenaline almost always clouds your thoughts and feelings. Quote8) Successful freeflying is achieved by being legs dominant. It's okay to use you hands and your arms while on a jump. But freeflying really is about flying your legs. Another very good point. Keep it in the back of your head that you shouldnt rely on your arms too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #16 October 8, 2003 Tom, there's a good chance I'll come out to play soon. If you see my suit, Predominaly Black with Red, and Neon Yellow stripes, Come bug me. I'll try to remembe to let you know when I'm coming out your way. It's possibly even this weekend.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #17 October 8, 2003 QuoteOne more question... If I spread my legs apart sissors like, instead of out to each side, will I get the same effect, or will that make me less stable at my stage of freeflying? Just to reiterate one point of canuck's. Even though head down is fun and it is the "glamorous" position, it comes with time and lots of practice, AFTER learning to sit fly. Trust, you will be much better off if you just focus on a good head up position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #18 October 8, 2003 QuoteCome bug me. One day I will have to come out and do those coach jumps we talked of in the past with you. I'm getting better (I've recently done some very good jumps with some bad ass freefliers) and have resolved some of my fast fall rate issues by wearing a big baggy XXXL sweat shirt. But I'm still learning and have yet to be accepted into the Jedi freeflying school (unlike a friend or two who are naturals at this ever so challenging skydiving discipline). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfritz 0 #19 October 8, 2003 Thanks for all the info, Steve! QuoteTom, there's a good chance I'll come out to play soon. If you see my suit, Predominaly Black with Red, and Neon Yellow stripes, Come bug me. I'll try to remembe to let you know when I'm coming out your way. It's possibly even this weekend. Awesome I always wear my beige cargo pants with a white shirt, too. ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfritz 0 #20 October 8, 2003 QuoteQuoteCome bug me.I'm getting better (I've recently done some very good jumps with some bad ass freefliers) and have resolved some of my fast fall rate issues by wearing a big baggy XXXL sweat shirt. I was reading this Pat Works book "The Art of vRW," and they said a big baggy sweatshirt is better than just a t-shirt. I think he was talking about freeflying in general, neither headdown or standing up specifically. I would have thought the sweatshirt would cause more drag and slow you down? Edit: Forgot to add... I was wondering if it would help me at all to wear a big sweatshirt? ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #21 October 8, 2003 I'm not a small person (about 200 lbs naked) and most of the people I jump with are smaller than I am. So from day one of my skydiving career, I've had fast fall rate issues I've needed to learn to overcome. At Rantoul I asked a small yet bad ass freeflier that I got to jump what I could do to slow down, and his response was "baggy clothing". So now I find that by using my XXXL sweat shirt, I can go head down with smaller people and the chances of me going low are reduced. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfritz 0 #22 October 9, 2003 I encoded that video better, it's only 18mb now. I'll upload it to skydivingmovies.com, too. http://www.outersph3re.com/skydiving/videos/tom_1st_freefly.avi ------------------------ Freefly, baby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OzoneJunkie 0 #23 October 9, 2003 As far as losing a shoe: I use "toggles" on my shoelaces. I think that's the technical name for them. You see them on pants drawstrings - 2 strings go thru. To loosen, you press a button on the toggle, which pushes in the spring-loaded button. I find these much better than just tying the laces. Just thread the laces thru the toggles, leave about 3 or 4 inches excess (when the toggles are in place, pulling your laces tight), and cut off the extra. Put 2 knots in each laces, to keep them from pulling thru. Much faster/easier than tying, especially if you double knot your laces. EDIT: you can find toggles at sewing stores Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #24 October 9, 2003 Great Idea! Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #25 October 9, 2003 Hey, cool pix! I can't see the vid on my computer, but i'm sure it rocks, too:) I'm just learning sit fly right now. It is major fun. I really want to learn head down, but i'm told I need to work on up down fwd bkwd, and getting into and out of sit very easily first. I am working on standing up right now and am spinning a little. Anyhow, have a blast with your freeflying, I can't wait 'til I can fly sit, stand and head down and do cartwheels n stuff like the pros, this is great! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
