Argh! I'm backsliding!

[skymama 35]

I've worked so hard on getting my sit and stand stable, and everyone who jumps with me tells me I'm good on that. But, now they said that now that I have that down, I need to work on the fact that I'm backsliding. They showed me on video that I was leaning forward a bit, and had my shins behind my kness a bit. So, I know what I need to do, but it's so hard to tell that when I'm doing solo's. I'm so frustrated! Has anyone else had this problem?
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[skybytch 259]

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Has anyone else had this problem?

Oooohhh yeah! Today as a matter of fact. My legs are fine, bent at 90's just like they're supposed to be and I'm pushing down hard with my feet. But I'm still sliding all over the place. I tried leaning back a little but then I felt all unstable, tensed up and started to spin.
Oh freefly godz and goddessez! Help us! pull and flare,
lisa

[NathanL100 0]

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I'm pushing down hard with my feet. But I'm still sliding all over the place. I tried leaning back a little but then I felt all unstable, tensed up and started to spin

I'm having the same problem too. Help?!?!?
Blue Ones,
Nathan
A# 39553

[Kirils 1]

Sounds like you are flying tense and may be bent forward at the waist. (time to video?) Don't fret, most everyone experiences these problems at first. Lay back in the kitchen chair position. You shouldn't have to use arms to counter the back slide zoomies. Forward and back movements can be accomplished by a slight pelvis thrust and retraction. Another hint is to try knee flying or "Indian cross-leg style" to get started. Pat Works book and video on Relative VRW is an invaluable purchase. Good luck!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[AggieDave 6]

What is knee flying?
I went to a Grateful Dead Concert and they played for SEVEN hours. Great song. -- Fred Reuss

[neural9 0]

No worries on the backslide. I found a lot of people told me to "assume the position" but due to body make up, rig shape, etc., each position is different from everyone else. Assuming 90degree arms and legs often doesn't help. Just my 0.01p's worth.
Having a reference like an experienced freeflyer or instructor makes all the difference when combating this problem. Until you're experienced enough to tell where the air is hitting you, you can't tell whether you are going back or forward - having something static will make all the difference. When you do get out, just start leaning back and forwards to experience the feeling - just have a good instructor in front of you who can get out of the way!
I also found that relaxing backwards as in sit-slow instead of in a tight ball makes it easier to to feel 'open' rather than 'closed'. Out of interest, a lot of people I know who backslide tend to have learned the cannonball recovery position rather than backflying - is this true to you as well?
hth, n9

[3fLiEr 0]

Everyone starts with a position that makes you back slide - due to it feeling more stable and comfortable to lean into the sit....... Spend some time doing solos leaning your back into the wind...... feel the pressure against your back..... if you feel unstable and start to fall off it go back to your stable position and try again slowly - you will find that you are able to fly both forward and backward in a stable postion - you will then naturally sit up when flying relative to people - you will just be able to feel where the pressure on your back and front equal..... this will be you going down the tube.
"Forward and back movements can be accomplished by a slight pelvis thrust and retraction"
This i found not true - when i was learning I could not for the live of me move using my pelvis - then someone said use your back and chest - Bingo - I had it - I push my back and shoulders into the wind and lean forward for movement - this worked for me and the pelvis works for other people - try things out experiment and find out how you are most comfortable when flying........
Do you move around when you are in a stand? most people dont forward and backward movement is harder in a stand then sit when learning so you probably go down the tube IF you hold a solid position - use this by going from a stand to a sit by slowly going from the fast fall position to slow fall - trying to keep your top half in the same postion.
I hope this helps ............ and is not as clear as mud as I think it maybe!!!
have fun, be safe but play hard and fast!!!
bsbd
"In a world where we are slaves to gravity I am pleased to be a freedom fighter"

[Zennie 0]

One other little tidbit thta helped me tremendously was to pay attention to the feet. Your feet, just like everything else on your body is a rudder. If your feet are a little "lazy" (i.e. toes up) you will push yourself backward.
Try pushing the toes down (along with the other tips people have given ... hips forward, lean back) and see if that helps.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[magicmx5 0]

This is the biggest problem I seem to be having trouble with. It's easy to concentrate on body position when you are in the plane and preparing for exit. Once you are falling, you are thinking about the dive, watching for other people, checking the ground, looking for others......basically everything except concentrating on body position. At least that's the way it's going for me.
I am plenty relaxed. I simply tend to leave my feet up too high and not even realize I'm doing it. I imagine a few videos and drill dives would fix the problem.
If you're not having fun, what's the point

[freeflir29 0]

A month or two ago I went out and did a drill dive that might help you with this. Get a partner and face off in free fall. Try to stay about 10 feet apart. You and your partner alternate front and back flips recovering in your sit. This will work on you "snapping back" to the correct position once you figure it out. There is no right and wrong in Free Flying really. It's what works for you. Definately use the "correct" position as a model but you will eventually find what works for you. I use my feet for moving forward. I don't get much out of leaning back for some reason....
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[3fLiEr 0]

"I use my feet for moving forward. I don't get much out of leaning back for some reason...."
Do you find using your feet gives you enough range in moving forward???......... surely there is not enough surface area to make up large distances in as shorter time as possible?.....
Oh and I agree - there is no right or wrong in FreeFly - thats why its Free Flying!.............
bsbd
"In a world where we are slaves to gravity I am pleased to be a freedom fighter"

[freeflir29 0]

"Do you find using your feet gives you enough range in moving forward???"
Yeah...I get a little movement out of leaning back but the real speed comes from pointing my toes down. The combination of the two really gets you zooming. Of course, it still isn't close to HD horizontal speeds but good enough for 40-50 feet.....
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[RemiAndKaren 0]

More legs...
ooops... wrong forum..
Remi
Muff 914

[3fLiEr 0]

"More legs..."
More tits..........
oooops........... wrong site.......
bsbd
"In a world where we are slaves to gravity I am pleased to be a freedom fighter"

[huffermoose 0]

everything is a rudder when in freefall for example i did and 8 way and i was base with the other guys in head down carving around me so they just told me to go into a stand bring one leg up and just tilt the foot inside its very stable and you can just adjust the speed speed by the angle of your foot very cool jump to watch them all go screaming around me. also while in empuria yesterday the babylon guys where doing some load organising i was the base and we started off everything nice and tight i was litterally in a stand with our chests actually touching in a stand and as we were getting to about 6 grand 2 other guys just fñlipped to head down and took grips on both my legs it really blew me away
sorry rambling there i found to sort out my problems in sit was to jump with less experiance jumpers and try and keep up with them in the air you really have to work hard and its great practice
just my 1/2 euro
cya mooose

[NathanL100 0]

Heheheheh..... I got my sit this weekend Yeah baby!!! I can fall stable and turn a little, I just need to keep reminding myself that I only need to make tiny movements and to relax into it.
Sorry to be bragging , but I'm totally stoked!!! Blue Ones,
Nathan
A# 39553

[skygeek 0]

Rock on dude!! Keep it up!

[Iflyme 0]

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to sort out my problems in sit was to jump with less experiance jumpers and try and keep up with them in the air

Thank goodness for helmets!
Anyway, I have been sitting here sit flying in my chair, and I realize that I tend to steer with the shoulders, pushing them back or fowards for horizontal control ... will try using pelvis more to see how that works. Good discussion...
Ramon, a while ago you posted a progression of skydives to before progressing to the next level of difficulty when learning to freefly head down... It was various steps in transitioning from a sit. I can't seem to access the old S&T files anymore... could you post something similar again?