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wmw999 2,136
Wendy P.
sundevil777 94
QuoteI think I'm a little shook up in that I would have liked my response better had I actually checked my alt after try #2.
You might also consider how long it takes to look at the altimeter, realize what it means, and decide what to do as a result of that altitude. I think it likely that you would spend a lot more altitude doing that compared to your last and successful attempt to pull. Of course that doesn't mean that another pull attempt is a good idea. If you think you need to check your altitude before another attempt, then you probably are already low and you know it - it is better to go right to your reserve
nigel99 144
QuoteQuoteI think I'm a little shook up in that I would have liked my response better had I actually checked my alt after try #2.
You might also consider how long it takes to look at the altimeter, realize what it means, and decide what to do as a result of that altitude. I think it likely that you would spend a lot more altitude doing that compared to your last and successful attempt to pull. Of course that doesn't mean that another pull attempt is a good idea. If you think you need to check your altitude before another attempt, then you probably are already low and you know it - it is better to go right to your reserve
Isn't your altimeter right in front of your face at pull time? I must admit that I do not look at it after waving off. It seems like reading your altimeter as you throw would be a good idea?
My natural reaction was - "Get something out now!". I had no thought or interest in trying to get the PC out after my second attempt.
I did have 'get-back-itis' and focused on getting back to the airport. When I was 300 ' AGL, I knew I was going to make it, but it was a 15 kt downwind approach. I also realized I hadn't done any practice flares like I should have because I was focusing on getting back so I was in half brakes all the way. Fortunately for me, my reserve is the exact same size as my main and it flared just fine.
BIGUN 1,065
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt depends on how aware you were of your altitude. Sounds like you did great, as you had it in your mind that you were likely going to need to use the reserve, and were under a good canopy above 2k. That is a little low for your jump numbers, but not terrible given what you had to do.
What have you done to make sure it doesn't happen again? There are OK techniques for folding and stowing your PC, and there are better techniques. I like Germain's method, although not so relevant to your issue, as it is more focused on the PC being able to extract when pulled by the bridle. Was it a mess stuffed in there? Having a set way of putting it in neatly is of course wise. Is there something that contributed to your handle being slippery?
Well, when I got home, I did practice repacking the chute over and over and over (tossing it out in between) and never had a hard pull before or after. I'm not really sure why it bunched on me. I've been using Germain's method as well since I started.
I think I'm a little shook up in that I would have liked my response better had I actually checked my alt after try #2. In my head I was thinking, if this doesn't work, I've got to go to the reserve. But like what was just mentioned above, I could have been lower than I thought. So, mentally, I guess I'll be drilling alt checks after each attempt should that ever come up again. Not sure what else I could do to prep for such a thing.
Please realize the rule of two is written in the blood of those gone before you.
Not trying to re-write rules or pretend they don't apply to me. Just curious on views on the matter, and if I should have done something totally different, I just want to know.
Also, FWIW, http://www.dropzone.com/safety/emergencies/emergency_deployment.shtml seems to say 2 different things (which is also why I'm asking for clarification). Under hard pull, it says to try 3 total times (original plus 2 tries to clear), but under trapped pilot chute, it's only 2 total times (original plus 2 vigorous)
Quote
Total Malfunction
1. Identification
a. A total malfunction includes deployment handle problems (unable to locate or extract the main parachute deployment handle), pack closure, and a pilot chute in tow.
b. If altitude permits, the jumper should make no more than two attempts to solve the problem (or a total of no more than two additional seconds).
SOURCE: http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Man_SIM_2012.pdf Section 5-1 E. Total Malfunction. pps. 103-104
EDIT: I _think_ what Dan and Mike (authors) were referring to was the older main ripcord handle - not the newer throw-out.
sundevil777 94
QuoteI had a trapped PC yesterday
Please describe in more detail.
Now you probably wonder why you were focused on getting back to the DZ, eh? If you'd just hung out and watched for your bag it wouldn't be lost, unless of course obstacles were making that prospect nasty.
NWFlyer 2
QuoteQuoteI had a trapped PC yesterday
Please describe in more detail.
Now you probably wonder why you were focused on getting back to the DZ, eh? If you'd just hung out and watched for your bag it wouldn't be lost, unless of course obstacles were making that prospect nasty.
You've obviously got way more time in sport than me, but I'm much more inclined to advise and reward newer jumpers for focusing on safely navigating traffic and landing rather than focusing on where their stuff is. I could see chasing a freebag (and/or main) becoming a distraction over paying attention to other canopies and finding somewhere good to land. Especially if it's the first time under the reserve - better to spend the time doing a few practice flares and turns (if altitude/location permits, of course).
JMHO. Gear's nice to have, but I sometimes think we put too much emphasis on following your trash down.
I didn't really want to describe too much detail, because it makes me look like an idiot. I was changing the way I pack my PC after watching Brian Germain's youtube video. In the process of changing my procedure and the way I was stuffing the bridle, I had a complete brain-fart and stuffed the hackey into the pouch. I did my handle checks on the plane, and felt the hackey but was wearing gloves. When I went to pull, I was wearing gloves, so I couldn't get it out.
Point 2:
I was directly over a golf course, and there were two large fields before the river so I could have in theory danced around in the sky looking for my free bag and still have a relatively safe place to land. I didn't give a shit about any of my equipment, I just wanted to land in the biggest field I could safely get to (the airport). There were two large areas of trees and a river it could have landed in, so following it down might not have worked anyway (see attached photo)
Luckily for me, I took Ian Bobo's Canopy Control course in August and the 5th jump of that course we pulled 2 miles south of the DZ to practice returning from a long spot. That was exactly where I was and I had the benefit of a 15kt tailwind.
sundevil777 94
sundevil777 94
QuoteQuoteQuoteI had a trapped PC yesterday
Please describe in more detail.
Now you probably wonder why you were focused on getting back to the DZ, eh? If you'd just hung out and watched for your bag it wouldn't be lost, unless of course obstacles were making that prospect nasty.
You've obviously got way more time in sport than me, but I'm much more inclined to advise and reward newer jumpers for focusing on safely navigating traffic and landing rather than focusing on where their stuff is. I could see chasing a freebag (and/or main) becoming a distraction over paying attention to other canopies and finding somewhere good to land. Especially if it's the first time under the reserve - better to spend the time doing a few practice flares and turns (if altitude/location permits, of course).
JMHO. Gear's nice to have, but I sometimes think we put too much emphasis on following your trash down.
You are right, and it is supposed to be on others (that haven't had to deal with a mal) to do the favor of following stuff down while the one with the extra adrenaline and less altitude deal with their reserve landing.
NWFlyer 2
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You are right, and it is supposed to be on others (that haven't had to deal with a mal) to do the favor of following stuff down while the one with the extra adrenaline and less altitude deal with their reserve landing.
And pitch in tromping around fields looking for a small swatch of (hopefully) brightly-colored fabric! In addition to the in-air visibility bright colors provide, chopping a black main into pine trees was what convinced me all my canopies need to contain obnoxious colors that don't occur in nature - at least not anywhere on the ground! Which is why my two canopies are now primarily yellow (with a little orange) and primarily orange (with a little white & navy).
devildog 0
QuoteQuote
You are right, and it is supposed to be on others (that haven't had to deal with a mal) to do the favor of following stuff down while the one with the extra adrenaline and less altitude deal with their reserve landing.
And pitch in tromping around fields looking for a small swatch of (hopefully) brightly-colored fabric! In addition to the in-air visibility bright colors provide, chopping a black main into pine trees was what convinced me all my canopies need to contain obnoxious colors that don't occur in nature - at least not anywhere on the ground! Which is why my two canopies are now primarily yellow (with a little orange) and primarily orange (with a little white & navy).
I'm gonna keep that in mind on my next main purchase, be it new or used
Quote
Not trying to re-write rules or pretend they don't apply to me. Just curious on views on the matter, and if I should have done something totally different, I just want to know.
Also, FWIW, http://www.dropzone.com/safety/emergencies/emergency_deployment.shtml seems to say 2 different things (which is also why I'm asking for clarification). Under hard pull, it says to try 3 total times (original plus 2 tries to clear), but under trapped pilot chute, it's only 2 total times (original plus 2 vigorous)
First, good job on keeping your head and handling the problem.
Did you notice all the people mentioning "altitude"? Of course you did and you already that is where you screwed the pooch.
Dave above mention the "two seconds" bit. I strongly urge you to disregard any talk about time in these situations. Surely you have heard of time distortion, right? What seems like two to you may be four to the real world...splat.
You had mentioned that you should have checked altitude after the 2nd try....Ooooops....not good. You should have checked it before the second try to see if you had enough altitude to even try it again.
The two-tries bit is for students and younger jumpers who have not had ample opportunity to train themselves solidly on EPs. Your reality is your decision altitude. It appears you got it done above the B-license requirement and all is well.
Congrats...now train yourself to pay more attention to altitude...in ALL EP situations.
I'm impressed that you are searching for knowledge...good stuff...keep it up your entire skydive career, eh?
Oh, BTW....the link to the DZ.com page is DZ.com.
We don't adhere to DZ.com we go by USPA and the FAA.
That's NOT to say there is no good info here. The info for the lost handle and the hard pull in your link is laughable. Ignore it.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Quote
Isn't your altimeter right in front of your face at pull time? I must admit that I do not look at it after waving off. It seems like reading your altimeter as you throw would be a good idea?
Yep! dead on!
Ooooo bad choice of words.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Do you best to be strong at pull time, and more importantly, be aware of your altitude at all times.
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