Camera Suit or Not with tandems

[ozzy13 0]

Just wondering what people think about this? Some guys wear them and some don't. What do you think?

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[billvon 2,400]

>What do you think?

Dress for success. If you are going to be jumping with all sorts of tandems, from the ex-marine with the fireplug to the tall skinny TM with the asian girl, then wings (and perhaps even a weight belt) will serve you well, at least if you see yourself as something of a video professional. If you're just screwing around with a lightweight helmet and can afford to lose a video every once in a while to fallrate issues then wear whatever you like.

[DSE 3]

I wear wings not because I *have* to but because I want the range. Even if I'm shooting a big heavy guy with a heavy TI, I still want my wings so I can easily pop up fast and use my body to get down fast. If I'm flying with a lightweight person, I use the wings as well, as they help steady the flying.
Like the old saw says..."Dress for success." Wings allow me creative freedom and a broad range, but I still wear em' on super heavyweights, too. Wings are great to help for those fast orbits going opposite the tandem when they're doing spins.

[edit] Phree beat me to the punch and said it better.

[PharmerPhil 0]

+1.

Yeah,...like they said.

[faulknerwn 36]

I didn't for a long time because all of our tandem masters were 200+ pounds... I wore weights, and an RW suit, and occasionally baggy clothing. Then we got a 140 lb tandem instructor and I now wear my wings all the time. I do have to fly with them collapsed for most of the skydive on many of our faster-speed tandems but they work...

[PhreeZone 15]

I'd rather have to strain to go faster (I can always back/sitfly if need) then go low and not have the range to get back up. I have some jumps with out wings but for tandems or AFF I'll always dress for success and strap on wings to give me that added range since you never know if I'm going to screw up and leave 3 seconds too early on a tandem and need to get back up or something like that.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[faulknerwn 36]

Yeah I'm fairly small so even if I left really early, I still had the range to get back up even with the big tandems. (The classic example was videoing out the Cessna when on ready set GO - right on go the tandem student grabbed the plane and I was a thousand feet low before they got out :-) I was thrilled I made it back in with just a baggy t-shirt!

With our small tandem master though the wings are a necessity. We have a 140 lb tandem master and a 255 lb tandem master. One I wear weights with regularly - by necessity!

I think its going to depend a lot on your build and fall rate. My problem was always figuring how much weight to wear because I struggled with keeping down - staying up was trivial until I started jumping with a tiny tandem master!

[velocityphoto 0]

My suit of choice is a tight tony suit nylon front with a light weight poly cotton loose sleeve and a free fly baggy leg of heavy cotton. With a tony suit c-wing.
My weight varies from 208 -218 exit weight is around 250 then.
I can fall as slow as under 100 and as fast as 160 on my belly if needed flip over and sit. But average fall rate can be around 135 or so and be vary comfy with that, meaning i don't have to work hard at arching or anything.
I jump with another camera man that prefers a really baggy free fly suit over having wings.He can do amazing stuff with that too.

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[dragon2 0]

I jump big wings always plus a weight belt for heavier TM/passenger combos.
Love my brand new Tony c-wing suit: this weekend the first jump was with a fast-falling TM + fairly heavy passenger, 2nd was with a lightweight TM + 8yr old or so kid. Got good video on both jumps (the first with lead) without having to strain very much
Without wings it's hard to get good video of the passenger and very easy to get a lot of video of the TM or get your knees in the frame a lot or get zoomy video. If you can lie still for at least 10 secs, lower than the tandem so the face of the passenger is in frame without showing parts of your own anatomy then I don't see much of a problem with jumping without wings. However, most freeflyers (and the occasional belly flyer without wings) I see doing video frankly do very poorly, so usually here you are (officially or unofficially) required to use wings.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[BMFin 0]

You have some of your video online ? Would love to see how it looks.

[dragon2 0]

Don't have an entire tandemvid online, just a bit in last weekend's video: click the lady with the red suit @ 1/4 into the vid (never mind the other tandem jump in that vid, that passenger was a licensed jumper).
And some pics click

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jimmytavino 16]

yes

always

in fact i tend to wear a camera suit... even on RW fun jumps....

( i used to shop for clothes, with my MOM,,,, in "the stout boys" section....)

jmy

[ozzy13 0]

Thanks everyone

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[lewmonst 0]

A cameraflyer without wings is like a 4way competitor without booties.

http://www.exitshot.com

[pierre3636 0]

a major thing which no one has brought up yet is i suppose it makes a big difference whether you simply belly fly all your tandems or if you can freefly (backfly, sitfly carve). belly vs freefly has a lot of range differences. the better you freefly the less the need for wings imo some people might feel different

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[PhreeZone 15]

I find even if I sitfly the wings are more useful since I can have then catch air and support me so that I can fly more upright then on my back. This can be a steeper angle with out getting my body into the frame. I rarely sitfly tandems anymore but I swore by my wings when I did.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[BMFin 0]

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A cameraflyer without wings is like a 4way competitor without booties.

An advanced 4way competitor ?

[Icon134 0]

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A cameraflyer without wings is like a 4way competitor without booties.

An advanced 4way competitor ?

What you don't wear booties? That's just wierd...

I do however use wings when I jump with tandems.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[BMFin 0]

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What you don't wear booties? That's just wierd...

Booty-Licious Freeflying

[davelepka 4]

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the better you freefly the less the need for wings imo some people might feel different

This couldn't be more wrong. Wings are for going slow, and freeflying is for going fast.

How does freeflying help you when your tandem pair is going 100 mph? It doesn't, but a set of wings will have you in your slot getting some great shots of a very light passenger.

Freeflying can replace a weight belt, not a set of wings.

[BMFin 0]

When I film a tandem that goes slow I just wear something baggier to adjust my fallrate.

I know pretty well how fast each TM at our DZ is and you just add the passanger to this equation and there you go. If its a little girl it might actually go faster than tall and skinny guy. Its all about the surface/weight.

I admit that wings gives you the possibility to float, but wearing baggy suit does the same.

I have nothing against wearing wings. I think they can be a good help. To me its more of an issue about the right "feel". Same issue IMO as wearing full face helmet. I dont like to wear it, but I have nothing against to those that wear one. In fact I think it is safer in most cases than open helmet. Still I choose to fly open face helmet. Matter of taste.

[pierre3636 0]

well its really up to your skill level and it depends what shots you are doing. you can backfly pretty slow you can also sit fly leaning back all the way with your arms as brakes pushing wind from behind your - you can carve slower than any flat flyer. not everyone can do that though - its all what you are happy with - wings are def recommened esp when you start. some of the best free fall photographers still wear wings and big ones at that. if you are sitting static in fron of someone then yes i agree wings will help if you are heavy and the tandem is light.
i cannot help but spot the irony given my profile pic

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[davelepka 4]

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- you can carve slower than any flat flyer.

Maybe, but then you failed in terms of being a 'professional'.

Anytime you limit yourself to one single position (or manuver) to stay with your tandem, you limit the shots that you can get. Given that every tandem is different, the best angle to shoot them from will be different. If this doesn't match the one option you have, your video will suck.

This is where the wings come in. Even if the tandem does 100mph, the video flyer could do 90 with a set of wings, so the video flyer ends up with options. They can sink, or float, move left or right. Lots of guy can do 100mph on their belly with no wings, but they cannot manuver at those speeds with any degree of quickness of accuracy.

I would love to see you shoot a tandem video with the wings in your picture. I think the best part about it would be after the opening, when you take a 30 second delay, and fly past all the open canopies from the load, and deploy right over top of the DZ.

[davelepka 4]

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When I film a tandem that goes slow I just wear something baggier to adjust my fallrate

When I had 600 jumps, that's how I did it too.

There is no baggy suit that will give you the range and power that a set of wings will. You may be able to get by with a baggy suit, but you'll never get the performance you'd have with a set of wings.

It's not just for absolute fall rate. All that surface area let's you move and stop with far more authority than anyone else in the sky. If you see a shot developing, the best way to get there before the opportunity passes is a set of wings.

I kow this thresd is about tandem, but if you ever do an AFF video, wings are where it's at. When things get crazy, you'll be right there, and not even trying that hard.

For the record, I don't like jumping my wings. It's just another thing to worry about, another peice of equipment to check, and another thing to deal with under canopy. I always eyeball my tandems before the jump, and if their big enough, I'll freefly the jump in my freefly suit.

But if I have ANY question in mind in terms of fall rate, or I'm shooting an AFF, I wear the wings. Even with a 220 lb AFF student, I wear the wings.

I tried for years to say that wings were gay, but the thruth is that they are the best tool for many, many video jobs.

[pierre3636 0]

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- you can carve slower than any flat flyer.

Maybe, but then you failed in terms of being a 'professional'.

Anytime you limit yourself to one single position (or manuver) to stay with your tandem, you limit the shots that you can get. Given that every tandem is different, the best angle to shoot them from will be different. If this doesn't match the one option you have, your video will suck.

This is where the wings come in. Even if the tandem does 100mph, the video flyer could do 90 with a set of wings, so the video flyer ends up with options. They can sink, or float, move left or right. Lots of guy can do 100mph on their belly with no wings, but they cannot manuver at those speeds with any degree of quickness of accuracy.

I would love to see you shoot a tandem video with the wings in your picture. I think the best part about it would be after the opening, when you take a 30 second delay, and fly past all the open canopies from the load, and deploy right over top of the DZ.

dude - of course you cannot shoot tandems in the biggest wingsuit on the market - damn i have 1000 ws jumps and i can hardkly fly the thing properly! but the flyby after would be sweeeet!

as for being proffesional - tandem is about a routine for me - ie there is a sequence of events in the film - ie exit shot high shot carve under shot, sit up shot close, transition shot, transition to back shot carve shot, deployment shot. its all about what you want to do and how youwant to produce your dvd. there is no right or wrong way - the same as there is no right or wrong way to get your body to fly at 110mph - someo do it back flying some do it belly flying, some do it with wings some without - there are no rules - all that matters is the quality of your shots in the end and if you can produce them consistently. anyways - happy shooting boys - im off the tread for now!

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~