HDR Photography in free fall - Anyone done it?

[freeflydrew 0]

I was wondering if anyone has tried this in free fall.

wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging

Flickr Group:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/hdr/

[Costyn 0]

Unless you jump with more than 1 stills camera on your head, I think this is almost impossible in freefall. It will be very hard to keep your head positioned in (almost) the same spot to take several consequtive pictures.

Of course, you could crop them to make them overlap, but even then you are moving and the lighthing and angle is bound to change.

And would there be much point? In most skydiving situations you have lots and lots of light to work with, very little shadows which you would usually use HDR to bring out.

Of course, these are my ideas/opinions. I'd be happy to hear a situation where this would be possible/useful.

Cheers

Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

[BMFin 0]

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Unless you jump with more than 1 stills camera on your head, I think this is almost impossible in freefall. It will be very hard to keep your head positioned in (almost) the same spot to take several consequtive pictures.

Of course, you could crop them to make them overlap, but even then you are moving and the lighthing and angle is bound to change.

You dont have to take more than 1 exposure to create a picture using HDR thecnique... Sure more exposures will yield better results, but its not necessary. It is possible to convert multiple JPG´s from a single RAW with variable brightness..

I just bought my camera during this winter and I havent shot any freefall pics yet, but I have been praticing some HDR I shot on the ground...

Uploaded a few of mine as an attachement... Both are 1 exposure shots.,

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And would there be much point? In most skydiving situations you have lots and lots of light to work with, very little shadows which you would usually use HDR to bring out.

Of course, these are my ideas/opinions. I'd be happy to hear a situation where this would be possible/useful.

Cheers

This is the biggest question. Are there any situations where we could benefit from the HDR imaging technique ?

I suppose there might be.. Digital cameras dynamic range just isnt nearly as large as human eyes range is.

In some situations a little bit more dynamic range might be needed, to bring out the details in shadows. Also you can create very natural looking pictures using HDR imaging if you want. Not all HDR pictures are as surreal as the ones I posted here..

If I remember correct Lazlo said in another post he has used HDR technique on some pics.. Maby he could tell about those a little more...??[email]

[arai 0]

I use hdr's everyday, but the extraction got out of a single raw image would be useless. Multiple exposures are needed to get a useful hdr. In my job hdr's are used in lighting 3d objects.

myself personally would be interested in the ability to capture hdr's in freefall as I could use them as a 3d render probe for my aviation art, those hdr's then combined with a pic taken on the same jump could allow for much better integration

[Laszloimage 0]

I've been using HDR for 2-3 years now.
You don't need two cameras or exposure bracketing.
You have to use RAW vs. JPEG.
Convert two or more files with different exposure from RAW to TIFF, JPEG, or etc. and "splice" them together in your software Photoimpact or PS-7 or higher.
Make sure the converted files don't carry the original data of the exposure.
That's the only thing film can still do better, the dynamic range.
Shooting in RAW to create a High Dynamic Range image is easy.
-Laszlo-

[BMFin 0]

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I use hdr's everyday, but the extraction got out of a single raw image would be useless. Multiple exposures are needed to get a useful hdr. In my job hdr's are used in lighting 3d objects.

I agree that using multiple exposures will yield to better results. (as I already said earlier)

However I definitely do not think 1exposure HDR images are useless. Even with one exposure HDR you can definitely bring in a lot more detail to the picture.

I added here a JPG conversion of the original RAW from which I made the tonemapped image. No changes has been made to this photo.

It may be a matter of personal preference weather you like the tonemapped one better or not. Decide your self. I like the tonemapped one way better than the original. Sure the outcome on this particular is not completely realistically looking, but it never was my intention to do so either..

Also I should maybe add that if I would have been shooting with a better camera the results would be better, since better cameras will allow you to adjust the exposure correction manually without bringing up so much noise into the picture. Mine is a 400D and a lot of times I get too much noise with it IMO..

[BMFin 0]

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I've been using HDR for 2-3 years now.

Lazlo, I would be very intrested to see some results..

Thanks !

[pilotdave 0]

It's not true HDR, but sometimes I'll play with Photoshop's "Highlights/Shadows" feature and overdo it a bit to make for an interesting effect. Attached an example... you can see that a lot more detail is visible in dark areas. A little too much to be natural. Also used "lens correction" to add some distortion/vignette that the canon 10-22 doesn't do on it's own.

Dave

[Laszloimage 0]

Very nice ones man!

[Laszloimage 0]

It would be very hard to sync two or more cameras and take pictures at the same time, don't even mention the space and weigh on the helmet.
Here's an example of HDR from a single RAW file.
I took the image, then I converted two files (see A and B). A's exposure is 1 step bumped in the RAW before I converted with Canon's Digital photo Professional. B is turned all the way down (two whole steps) Then used HDR in my Ulead Photoimpact-10 setting 3 f-stop interval (image A is 1 up B is two down the difference is 3)
The result is pretty good as it shown by te edited image.
Normally I can bump up any photo 1 step up without generating too much noise (not even in the blacks) what I can easily fix later on with noise reduction.
Of course it's even better if the original has too much bright but not blown out yet. Then I can just make one image as dark as possible from the original RAW beside the original shot. This way I don't even genertate extra grain (noise).
I can aply HDR from one RAW file without any problem, I'm also doing it on the daily bases
-Laszlo-
ps. I made these example shots quick I didn't take my time to match the colors of the canopy and the jumpsuit. I just wanted to show the idea...

[freeflydrew 0]

Laszlo I always wondered how that photo captured so much atmosphere! When I looked at your photos, that one stood out with such richness and great colors! Thats really nice broh'

I love all of those shots...

[Trae 1]

in reply to "...............aviation art..............."
........................................

very nice !!!

More???

[Costyn 0]

Okay, I stand totally corrected on needing more than 1 shot for HDR.
Now I have a question: if it's fairly easy to get a HDR picture out of a RAW file, why isn't this function available in digital cameras? It would seem a fairly easy way to get more dynamic range out of them? I guess I sort of found an answer here.

Thoughts?

Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

[Laszloimage 0]

Thanks Drew!

[DSE 3]

Keep in mind that as the conversion to another file format is made, the exposure values are somewhat changed out. Laszlo's technique is a hack/workaround that happens to work so long as the image isn't being grossly pushed. We use this same technique with high end video/film to create color repair when exposure is over or badly underexposed. It works, it's not optimal, but it does work, and if you've captured the image correctly as Laszlo has or slightly underexposed it, then you can get some very reasonable results. For BEST results, you do need multiple exposures, preferably at least 3, and it requires a lot of processing horsepower, so I'd submit this is one of many reasons you won't find it built into a camera itself. Plus, I'd wager most photographers doing HDR like the idea of tweaking various channels in their image editor before doing the composite.

[arai 0]

sorry I should have said useless for my application. My uses for hdr's require that they have a very high dynamic range within them. As its not the final converted image that matters but that they retain that range to be used in a 3d application, the hdr is imported into a 3d package and used to "light" a 3d scene.


another example of a 3d scene partially lit by hdr's

[DSE 3]

Doesn't look like Maya or Lightwave? What are you using to compose these shots? Nice work, even in small resolution, looks wonderful!

[LouDiamond 1]

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so I'd submit this is one of many reasons you won't find it built into a camera itself.

I'm pretty sure that some of the higher end cameras offer a setting that will accomplish this. I remember seeing an exposure setting that gives you +/- in each direction on my 5D. I'll have to pull the manual out as I know there is an easy way to do this even in skydiving.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[dragon2 0]

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so I'd submit this is one of many reasons you won't find it built into a camera itself.

I'm pretty sure that some of the higher end cameras offer a setting that will accomplish this. I remember seeing an exposure setting that gives you +/- in each direction on my 5D. I'll have to pull the manual out as I know there is an easy way to do this even in skydiving.

That's called exposure bracketing, this means your camera takes 3 or 5 pics in whatever it's fps rate is while varying the exposure by 1/3 or 1/2 stop each. Very workable on a tripod, no good in freefall...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[The111 0]

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so I'd submit this is one of many reasons you won't find it built into a camera itself.

I'm pretty sure that some of the higher end cameras offer a setting that will accomplish this. I remember seeing an exposure setting that gives you +/- in each direction on my 5D. I'll have to pull the manual out as I know there is an easy way to do this even in skydiving.

That's called exposure bracketing, this means your camera takes 3 or 5 pics in whatever it's fps rate is while varying the exposure by 1/3 or 1/2 stop each. Very workable on a tripod, no good in freefall...

Yeh, plus it's present in bottom of the line Rebels.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Laszloimage 0]

Spot gave you the answer already...
It takes some "tweaking around" in my softwares, plus some computer power (3.4GHz HT P4, 800Mhz FSB, 2GB RAM). Knowing what I'm doing it takes 4-5 minutes to create a 13MP HDR image.
Whith in in this time I also have to determine certain settings otherwise it won't work.
For a digital camera these days still impossible to process and figure out all those "tricks".
But I can tell you now in few years they'll build image sensors and image processors which will way exceed the dynamic range of film and we'll have to do less HDR post processing.
My best guess is they will come up with multiple exosure levels on the image sensore at the same time. Meaning that we'll able to set different ISO levels on any desired spot or section of the image sensor. So one image can have different exposure levels in a very same frame. For example you set ISO 50 in the upper 1/3 on the sensor where the sky is bright and ISO100 for the rest where everything elese is darker.
(See the exaple shot) http://www.laszloimage.com/Aug_2007_NEW/pages/Aug_18th_07_MG_6502.htm
In this shot I had to use HDR to make the sky more colorful insed of white. Using the imaginary sensor it would have been lot easier just set the upper 3rd of the image sensor to a lower ISO value...
Nature photgraphers are using ND filters to create a same effect where one half the filter is darker than the other. I might start experimetig with it while I jumping.
And of course we can consider an image HDR (High Dynamic Range) when we use a flash.
see this example: http://www.laszloimage.com/Feb_2008_NEW/pages/Feb_3rd_08_MG_8674.htm
The camera was set to get the sky dark blue. Also dark enought the sun just sits in the corner without blowing the image off. But to get the jumpers lit up properly (also they're wearing dark suits) I had to use two Canon 580EX flashes to get the necesarry power.
...So there's a few way to create HDR image.
-Laszlo-

[arai 0]

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Doesn't look like Maya or Lightwave? What are you using to compose these shots? Nice work, even in small resolution, looks wonderful!

thanks.

my renders are actually done in lightwave, however I post process them in photoshop and paint a lot of details for a final image.

my grandfather flew this particular lancaster in wwII so the renders are at a high enough resolution to print out and hang on the wall (about 5500 pixels across)

[BMFin 0]

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Now I have a question: if it's fairly easy to get a HDR picture out of a RAW file, why isn't this function available in digital cameras? It would seem a fairly easy way to get more dynamic range out of them?

It seems at least Fuji has been developing a bit similar technique.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0301/03012202fujisuperccdsr.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_CCD

[4dbill 0]

HDR sure has come a long ways since the last post on this thread. Some single RAW pseudo HDR images are fantastic, including some skydiving pictures.
Having said that, ever since I've been shooting DSLR videos a few months ago, I've been trying to bring out more details from the dark shadows of freefall video, thus the HDR research.
I knew jumping multiple cameras was not an option due to cost, weight and size requirements, so I wanted find a solution via software.
Just recently, I've had pretty good luck with certain plugins that reduce the harsh contrast during post.
I then tried some pseudo HDR tricks on video footage, just to see.. and this is a result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVlj1GSplMU
It's an interesting effect. I am going to continue experimenting to see if I can get more natural looking High Dynamic Range from the process.

4DBill
http://dslrforvideo.com
http://4dbill.com

[mccordia 73]

This is a nice one to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlcLW2nrHaM

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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