AFFI 0 #26 July 11, 2007 QuoteQuote"All my video/stills equipment i already owned for my every day job." And what is that everyday job? Advertising photography/photojournalism. I owned all my cameras and lenses, including wide angles, prior to even beginning skydiving. In keeping with the current topic: My intent of making this inquiry was going to be to make a point concerning making “every camera flyer act as their own private contractor”. Phreezone made some good comments as to why it is not a good idea to throw tandem students to the “contractor dog pit”. So I will leave it alone, enough said... But – After the direction this thread has taken and the nauseating volley of debate between * and * I certainly would not want to further water the seeds of indeterminacy. By that I mean, often times a good and enlightening thread of information can get bogged down when vague and not very well established lines of thought get caught up in a tempest of unnecessary deliberation concerning who said what and what exactly that meant which invariably leads to ruffled feathers – what could be accurately referred to as the “I” factor. Knowing and respecting both parties in this particular torrent, I read every word seeking out the enlightened conclusion, but was left feeling more like I just watched a wrestling match, which I am not a fan of, so I am just left with a vivid and profound insight into how I can better my decision making about when to put my dog in a fight because it is worth it, and when I should just let the other person have the last word (so perhaps that is the enlightened conclusion )… Go sharks eh???Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #27 July 11, 2007 I do both... (2000+ TM's 3000+ camera jumps) Everything you listed about doing TM's is valid about doing video. A pro camera guy can't fall asleep any more than a TM/I, and should take just as much responsibility since he/she's just as much part of the skydive! Unfortunately the camera guy has lot more expenses equipment wise. Further more, the reason why free fall photographers don't get paid enough is very simple. This is "one on one" job. This means one single customer pays for one single video/photo shoot. In our DZ the DVD&Stills cost extra $95 per person top of the $185 tandem jump. So it's a quiet amount of money to spend at once for one individual. Out of that $95 we get $50, the slot is $20, and the DZ keeps its share $25. In a PRO world where camera people get paid way more than we do, because basically houndreds or thousands of costumers pay for the job. Imagine how many pepole buys National Geographic vs. Parachutist or how many people buys some skate boarding DVD in Wal-Mart vs. a Swoop DVD at the DZ gear store. The whole point is the costumer base is very small in the skydiving world, while the expenses to create anything costs as much (or even lot more) just like anywhere else. Also we have to be honest with ourselves. How many real photographer (have some kind of school) works in skydiving as a photographer? A vast majority of us is nothing else but a skydiver who owns some camera gear but really don't know anything about photography (I used to be one of them too!!!). If you want to make real money as a free fall photographer better to stop depending by TM videos (still a very good place to learn) and try to sell your stuff out side of the skydiving world. (like Norman Kent, DSE, Tom Sanders, and etc...) That is really really tough, requires a lot of knowlege and connections! Good luck to everybody! -Laszlo- ...at least skydiving is more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #28 July 11, 2007 Falling asleep ! LOL ! I don't think so buddy. I am a tm and a photographer .I never have time for sleep because i'm to frikin busy working with my camera's and making sure i have proper aperture,shutter speed, flash power, audio, focus, lens clean, plugs plugged in, battery power, number of shots left , tape time left, battery power in my sennheiser mic , receiving audio from mic,doing interview ,taking shots inside the plane, resetting my flash power and camera settings after taking shots inside the plane for free fall, now its time to get ready to exit! and double check all my settings and oh don't forget to check a pin check ! So i take it as a personal insult that you would insinuate that! A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #29 July 11, 2007 Quotetry to sell your stuff out side of the skydiving world. (like Norman Kent, DSE, Tom Sanders, and etc...) That is really really tough, requires a lot of knowlege and connections! I think you hit the nail on the head there... no matter how good of a skydiver you are, and no matter how much real photographic/camera skills/knowledge you have, you still need to have knowledge of the marketing process, and the connections... this has been my biggest roadblock so far in my extremely short experience. The sad truth is I would guess the market in general today (not skydiving, just in general), is probably saturated with talent. Look around on the web... you will find tons of Joe Schmoes with excellent nature photography that would be right at home in National Geo, but the only place it's featured is in their web gallery, presumably because NG already has enough. I'd imagine it's a lot like the Hollywood/acting world - there are TONS of great actors who will never become "celebrities", simply because there are only so many celebrities the market can support, psychologically speaking even. Certain ones just happen to get the right opportunities and the right connections. There's a great chance I'm talking out my ass, since I really have no experience here (but would love to)... somebody PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. Hell, there was an interview with Joe Jennings on here a while back, and people were having a Q & A with him, and somebody asked him what advice he would have if they wanted to get on a similar path as him. His response, to the best of my recollection, was essentially that if he had it all to do over again, he didn't know if he could... he just had a lot of great opportunities fall in his lap, and took advantage of them. Whether that is humility, or truth... I don't know.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbondvegas 0 #30 July 14, 2007 Quote His response, to the best of my recollection, was essentially that if he had it all to do over again, he didn't know if he could... he just had a lot of great opportunities fall in his lap, and took advantage of them. Whether that is humility, or truth... I don't know. This is the truth for most succesful people outside of skydiving and photography too.- - - I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #31 July 14, 2007 Quote, I agree it's bullshit that a video guy supplies ALL his shit and gets paid less than the hungover TM that shows up with NOTHING, grabs a student altimeter and goes to the plane. That TM is taking on a LOT more risk than you are. Yeah, you've got shit all over your helmet but the TM has 200 pounds of stupid actively trying to kill him... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #32 July 14, 2007 Wanted to add the picture for Lisa. PRime example of "200-pounds of stupid." this guy is a multimillionaire and can not follow simple instructions. He was waving to mewhen I took this picture. Note: it IS zoomed and cropped because I wasn't getting near that ball of shit. EDIT: they just added the video of them all jumping.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #33 July 14, 2007 QuoteQuote, I agree it's bullshit that a video guy supplies ALL his shit and gets paid less than the hungover TM that shows up with NOTHING, grabs a student altimeter and goes to the plane. That TM is taking on a LOT more risk than you are. Yeah, you've got shit all over your helmet but the TM has 200 pounds of stupid actively trying to kill him... We have significantly more medical problems with video people than with t/ms, at least over here. So I'd say a video person takes more risk with his body than a t/m. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #34 July 16, 2007 I'd still much rather wear my 13lb camera helmet than a 200 lb tandem student. Tandem students do some freaky stuff up there I'm pretty glad I can just backslide away and watch the TM deal with that shit Not to mention the fact that TM's have to jump whatever gear the DZ supplies. At some DZ's that's cool, at others, not so cool. I've filmed enough tandems to know that I want absolutely no part of it.....I'll pay for my own gear and jump my own gear, thank you very much........ Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
