pope 0 #1 February 1, 2006 How many of you regularly back fly when filming tandems? If so, how much and what kind of experience do you have with it? Good results or bad? I know that this dropzone is looking for back flying video flyers. If you film tandems professionally, what's your opinion of back flying vs. belly? pope Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #2 February 1, 2006 I'll back fly when ever I can. It's ten times more fun than belly, and it's easier to get a wider range of angles. It also provides a smoother transition from a head down freefly exit (before the drouge toss) to filming the drouge-fall. It's really just an issue of how good you are. A talented belly flyer can do 99% of what a talented backflyer can do. In the end all that matters is the final product. Provided you aren't creating an unsafe situation, it doesn't matter how you get the footage, as long as it looks good and the customer is happy. I think I prefer it for the fun factor. I like freeflying, so if I can get paid for it, all the better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #3 February 1, 2006 I'm trying to figure out what the value of flying on your back vs. flying on level with wings and craning your neck upwards and arching is? Maybe someone can offer their thoughts. It seems to me having the horizon visible and not just a blue sky will give a better sensation of being in the air and make for better video. I don't do tandem video though so that's just my personal opinion.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #4 February 1, 2006 QuoteI'm trying to figure out what the value of flying on your back vs. flying on level with wings and craning your neck upwards and arching is? Maybe someone can offer their thoughts. Like I said, the angles are all the same. You can shoot any angle you want from your back. Staying under them the whole time has the same drawbacks as flying on level with them the whole time, it produces a boring product. There's a fine line between overflying the video, and being boring. It changes with every jump depending on the student, and the light and background conditions. I look around in the ride up, and put together an 'A' plan, and then once the drouge is out, see how things are progressing, and maybe ditch the 'A' plan for something that will 'fit' better. In the case of a student who is looking straight down, and a TM who can't/won't help out, down low on your back will get you the face shot. It's big complicated thing with variables that change all the time, even mid-jump (late sunset jumps, or above/below the could deck). The more flexibility you have, the better chance that you'll be able to keep up with the changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #5 February 2, 2006 Personaly i like to belly fly it makes it a bit easyer to dock on the student and take em for a ride .I'm not a real good sit flyer as of yet but i'm working on it. A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #6 February 2, 2006 I actually find it much easier to dock with a foot (with a camera wing on anyway)...and I think it makes more of a drastic video as well. I definitely prefer back flying my videos (when possible) instead of belly flying them. I was just getting proficient at them when I had to leave mile hi (20 mins in the tunnel makes a big difference!)...that'd be cool as hell if I had anything to do with their decision to seek out qualified back flying videographers! Might make me feel like I'm doing something right in my life...Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #7 February 2, 2006 Thats what i need about an hour or 2 in the tunnel to work on that huh!??? A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #8 February 2, 2006 20 mins, and I was a mediocre sitflyer when I went to perris' tunnel...only you'll have to go to colorado now, JP showed most of what to do and he's working over there now, and while I was able to I'm not sure if it's sop to allow camera suits in the tunnel.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #9 February 2, 2006 I have a free fly suit with a small wing on it ,maybe i can get away with it in there no problems. My other suits all have big wins on them A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #10 February 2, 2006 They let me use my big wings...they had webbing that I could use as makeshift leg straps and clip my wings in to. I had already rigged up similiar leg straps with multiple layers of duct tape that worked well also, but the webbing was better.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #11 February 2, 2006 I try to back fly, but I refuse to do it on a paying customer if I might might ruin the video for them. It took me about 5-7 exiting form a front float to get the range down, but I'm still trying to extend my mobility on my back and be as flexable in my motions as I am on my belly. I figure this year it will take 20-30 jumps to get the flow going and I'll see how the product looks. 5-7 minutes in the Tunnel with JP last fall was just embrassing. Gimp watched as I flailed like a newbie. I can sitfly and take about any dock I want to that way. I slammed my head into the walls too many times to count on my back. I'd just start to get stable then I'd start a nasty backslide and lose it. I'd love to go back with my camera wings and do 20-30 minutes just on my back again.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pcalandra 0 #12 February 2, 2006 On my few tries this past year I found it almost impossible to stay on level, I kept sinking out. I wish we had a tunnel near by ANd I also refuse to practice on paying customers. I'm sure there must be something fairly simple that I'm missing to enable me to catrch enough air to stay up. Shit I can belly fly with tandems less than 100 lbs to over 240 on my belly! Pat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #13 February 2, 2006 QuoteA talented belly flyer can do 99% of what a talented backflyer can do. That's one oppinion. Many "freeflyers" who film tandems can't do 50% of the job a talented "cameraman" can. Belly, back, sit, or anything else, that's how you get the good products. QuoteI think I prefer it for the fun factor. I like freeflying, so if I can get paid for it, all the better. That's fine, if you're good enough (and I thonk YOU are) but too many DZ's allow people who forget that the quality of product is EVERYTHING, to work. Edit: I fly in whatever orientation I feel will suit the needs of the jump to achive best product.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ffejdraga 0 #14 February 2, 2006 I hear you. I used to fall out too, but then I got used to slow fall on my back, and that problem was solved. I weigh about 230 pounds, plus gear. I have a good camera suit(Flite camera suit, wings attach at the hips), and I can "pop-up" and look down for a different view on most students (not the super light ones with super light Tms) I love backflying/sitflying with tandems simply because it is easier on my neck. More natural alignment of head and body. Oh yeah, plus it is really fun. Just practice more with some non-video getting tandems. You'll get there. The tunnel in NH will be ready for you soon enough.... jeff D-16906 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #15 February 2, 2006 I'm by no means an experienced videographer, at the moment i'm still paying my way onto tandems to learn all i can about flying with them and filming tandem video. I do however really like backflying certain parts of the skydive. Exiting off the stut of the porter on my back with the tandem going out over me is really cool. So is being able to transition from belly to back after the TM pulls and the canopy begins to open. It gives a really smooth view of the opening sequence. Tunnel time also helped immensely when it came to learning how to backfly. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #16 February 2, 2006 If you read the last paragraph of my first post, it does state that a quality finished product is the absolute end of shooting video. If you can produce that, barring a safety issue, your methods are irrelevant. That said, a camera man has to be his own worst critic, and be realistic about his abilities, and plan his jumps accordingly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conquest150 0 #17 February 3, 2006 i mainly shoot on my belly. my exits are on my back out of a 182, but i transition to my belly as they set the drogue or whenever i feel the need to but if i stay on my back for much longer after the drogue set i tend to sink out on the tandem. ive tried 2 or 3 times to fly on my back all the way through on a tandem with no payin vid and always seem to fall to fast. i plan on working on my backflying this season (on nonpayin vids) jsut so that ill have that to use if i absolutely have to. i also transition from my belly to a sit and sometimes to my back for the opening shot and it tends to give a great opening shot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pcalandra 0 #18 February 3, 2006 I don't have any problems with the transitions from belly to sit to back and have been doing that & similar transition including a kind of belly/back/barrel roll for openings, I just can't seem to slow down enough once that drogue is out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSBDeath 2 #19 February 3, 2006 I love to back fly But it is not good for every jump, some TM Masters are better than others, I decide during the jump if it will work with this pair or not!! Depending on my past jump performance with a given TM-M will give me a good idea about what is about to happen. I do try to front flote most exits these days, but that too does not always work out. Belly is bread and butter, do RW (V or B), get the shot and make the custormer happy that is my goal on all TM Video jumps!!! My 2 Cents, Arvel Out!!BSBD...........Its all about Respect, USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #20 February 3, 2006 QuoteI love to back fly couldn't agree more! Doesn't hurt the back when filming the fatties....and much easier to get under and film that student that refuses to look up... Plus awesome opening shots!my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #21 February 3, 2006 Got to watch getting too close on those. Watched a video from a few years back of a camera flyer on his back under a tandem and I mean UNDER and at pull time the combo of the trap door and the burble lead to the passenger falling right on the camera flyer and just about hitting him with his feet as they took off when the canopy opened. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conquest150 0 #22 February 3, 2006 ive heard of someting real similar happening. one of our tm's from last year or the year before dont really remember was tellin me about it and he said the when they went to pull the vidiot got under him and with the combo of the trap door adn burble the vidiot and the student ended up belly on belly adn the student grabbed the cutaway handle and pulled it on teh video guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #23 February 3, 2006 QuoteGot to watch getting too close on those. Watched a video from a few years back of a camera flyer on his back under a tandem and I mean UNDER and at pull time the combo of the trap door and the burble lead to the passenger falling right on the camera flyer and just about hitting him with his feet as they took off when the canopy opened. Had exactly that happen to me on one of the first tandems I filmed on my back...thought I had plenty of separation but when the trapdoor came they just kept on coming! Learned my lesson big time on that jump. Whether you are on your back or your belly you should never fly directly under or over someone else...not just the burble to worry about, a premature opening in that situation could be fatal.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSBDeath 2 #24 February 4, 2006 Don't forget, if you are directly under them, you are in their air, and the trap door will be excentuated!! A good TM-M wave off, pause prior to pull (to allow Videit to escape), then the pull is a better way to have it happen. We all no that it is not a perfect world, SHIT Happens, but if we all think ahead just a few seconds, then we can anticipate the next move. TM-M to Videit communication is KEY!! Eye-to-Eye, clear goggles, blah...blah......blah Stay safe, get the shot, and wipe the snot!!! Arvel OutBSBD...........Its all about Respect, USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pcalandra 0 #25 February 4, 2006 My personal opinion is you should never be directly under a tandem pair! What would happen if you had a premature opening????????? Nobody ever thinks it can happen to them, but I've seen a lot of shit happen in this sport over 25 years and I don't want to be the one repsonsible for taking 2 others off this earth.........not to mention myself. Safety should always be #1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
