Building a new computer for editing.

[mwabd1 0]

I am getting ready to build a new computer on which I will dedicate to editing only. I plan on using an Althalon 64 3400 but have no clue what motherboard to put it on....any of you computer smart people have any suggestions?

[tdog 0]

I have built all our company servers using the SuperMicro rackmount server products. The chassis and the motherboard come as a package. Just add processors, hard drives, and ram, and you are done.

I have three servers running dual xeon processors

I have one server running dual 64 bit xeons and server 2003 64 bit version - that acts as a terminal server.

All four servers have RAID arrays, etc.

I have had ZERO issues with hardware, and I hate to say it, with OS either. In two years on the three servers, the only time they went down was when the power went out longer than the battery UPS. I had a hard drive fail, and the RAID worked as planned.

I thus am a Supermicro fan.

BTW... The Dell, HP, and Compaq systems have all had issues. My friend who installs servers for Doctor's offices reports of 30 Supermicro "homemade" servers, not one has gone down in 5 years.

[LouDiamond 1]

Do you do any editting on these machines at all? If so what other hardware are you using?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mattjw916 2]

Okay, the very fact you asked this question here is a good indication that you should buy a pre-built system from a reputable manufacturer with a decent warranty. If you aren't a hardcore computer nerd building your own computer is a daunting task nowadays and won't really save you any money unless you already have a bunch of parts laying around and are familiar with terms such as socket 939, PC3200 memory, 2-2-2-5-1T timings, PCI Express, etc, etc...

That said, http://www.anandtech.com/guides/ has good information and decent recommendations, something in the mid-range would probably work fine. Personally, if I were to build a new system from scratch for video editing I'd go with:

Opteron 165 or 170 dual core (but Athlon dual core would be okay too)
2x 512MB RAM in dual-channel mode with tight-timings
DFI motherboard if you are a serious tweaker otherwise an ASUS would be great. Definately socket 939, definately nForce4 chipset...
nVidia video card (doesnt really matter which one since you arent playing games but since nV has a unified driver model and does regular updates they are my fav)
WD Raptor for system disk and one or more 150GB SATA drives for "scratch".
Don't buy a cheap power supply or case or you will regret it...

More good info here:

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/
http://www.hardocp.com/

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[tdog 0]

No, they don't have any editing...

Two of them are terminal servers.

One of them has 25+ users at any given time running outlook, word, porn sites, etc... Since it is a terminal server, it is running all the software for all the users, and the users are just logging in from "dumb terminals" from their seats... So, imagine your desktop running 25 simultaneous users... It gets quite a load. The gigs of ram and shared dlls actually make the terminal server experience much faster than the desktops employees used to have, but I digress.


My point was that the hardware is extremely reliable...

If I added a firewire card and video editing software, any one of them would be a kick ass machine. Video editing machines need lots of fast hard drive space, fast processors for compressing files, etc...

My next desktop will be a supermicro I will make... Something like a http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7044/SYS-7044H-X8R.cfm?PID=TWR....

But the funny thing is - I am now editing video on my laptop, and having great results... I have an external firewire hard drive in case my 80 gigs on my laptop is not enough... The DVD burner means I can even make DVDs in the waiting area of the tunnel for teammates, like I did last time I was at Eloy...

[Vectracide 0]

Blah Blah Blah.......all of what they said, I used to subscribe to as well.....




Then I got a Mac.





PC never again.

------------------------------

Controlled and Deliberate.....

[velocityphoto 0]

Somebody had to say it! teee heee! high five....

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[mwabd1 0]

Quote

If you aren't a hardcore computer nerd building your own computer is a daunting task nowadays and won't really save you any money unless you already have a bunch of parts laying around and are familiar with terms such as socket 939, PC3200 memory, 2-2-2-5-1T timings, PCI Express, etc, etc...

Yea I guess I should have better phrased the origional question.......I am more looking for recomendations of manufactures. I have built a couple of systems now and have had great luck with MSI MB's but was considering something different this time and yes it will be a 939 socket and I do already have most of the parts I need.

[bob.dino 0]

Stable and reliable beats bleeding-edge fast. When rendering you'll be running your CPU at 100% for extended periods of time, and having to redo a three hour render 'cause your PC overheated/crashed/whatever 2.5hrs in gets old, quickly.

[IGOLOW 0]

I just priced out an editing system using the Asus A8N-E motherboard. If I were to build a system right now this is the board I would use. What are you going to be editing? What application are you going to use? This is what should dictate the components that you purchase.

I'm holding out for motherboards that support DDR2 memory with AMD's new socket. My current system is great for DV editing. Any new system that I build would be for HD/HDV editing.

[goobersnuftda 0]

One little quirk that drove me crazy on my computer.

Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4800 processor
4 GB ram
1 TB HD (x4 250 GB, first 2 Raid Array....smokin fast)

Adobe Premiere is a bit behind the times for new systems like that. When it came time to import video from my miniDV camera, ERRORS galore. Drove me crazy. The issue is that Premiere can not handle the import of video with 2 processors at the same time. CTRL-ALT-DEL to bring up task manager then right click on PREMIERE and change the AFFINITY from CPU-0 and CPU-1 just down to one processor. Once the video is imported, turn both processors back ON and you are back up to 100% speed agin.

I can't tell you how important pumping your money into the CPU is. Render times are smokin fast. Buy the best processor you can then and only then, move down the line to other peripherals. I love my little box of joy......oh yea, love the wife too (order changes from time to time depending on current situation :)

[goobersnuftda 0]

Another note on hardware.....STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM DELL !!!!

I'm sure many people are dying to buy their new $400 computer with monitor & printer but that stuff is crap. Find a local, well established computer dealer and buy your stuff piece by piece. That is how DELL makes money. Put all sorts of sub standard crap in a box and charge full price for it. Should have 500W P/S but put in 350W. Should have a real MB but has proprietary one with build in video card that SHARES ram with the MB. Crazy crap like that.

And for you fruit dwelling Apple people, I have something for you:

Apple Parody

PS, I cut my teeth on an Apple ][e and Apple //C. Times have changed and I grew up since then. Yea I know my windoze system is full of holes but at least I have 35,000 gas stations to fill up at instead of the mighty Apple 4 :)

[Zoter 0]

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Another note on hardware.....STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM DELL

Interesting......
I bought a high end Dell machine 3.5 years ago where I was aloowed to choose the specification....for almost $700 less than if I had sourced the hardware/software myself and built my own machine.

I have made hardly any upgrades in this time and its just as reliable and fast as it was on day one.......and my machine gets very regular editing/rendering 'abuse'

My Dell PC has been the most stable reliable and powerful PC I have owned......I have no complaints at all.
Cant comment on Customer service/repair....cuase I have not had to use it yet !

[mattjw916 2]

There was an update related to the dual core processors and the "cool n quiet" feature which was causing performance issues with many games and some appications regardless of whether or not the feature was enabled in BIOS. While the fix does not specifically target your issue I was wondering if you applied it. There is a lot of information out there regarding this fix on the forums and some registry hacks to make winxp play nice with dual core systems. AMD also info on it on their website also. You might want to give it a try if you haven't already.

Cheers...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[goobersnuftda 0]

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There was an update related to the dual core processors and the "cool n quiet" feature which was
...

The issue was just with Adobes bad computer coding for Premiere. Even the free windoze movie maker that comes in XP had no issues with that at all. Pinnacle, Vegas and all the rest of them have no problem importing under AMD dual processor systems just Adobe products. That was one reason why it was so hard to nail down the problem because it was CPU/application specific.

[mattjw916 2]

Good to know, thanks for the info!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[tdog 0]

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Another note on hardware.....STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM DELL !!!!

My Dell laptop has been rock solid...

Our Dell desktops at work have been rock solid... They worked without a single hardware failure until their processor speed became functionally obsolete.

The HP and Compaq machines I have purchased have sucked. I set my Dad up with a Compaq for his office... All sorts of hardware problems... My parents HP was so full of crap that HP put on it, that it finally needed to have the OS reinstalled. I looked for the software disks and found a class action lawsuit had been filed because HP did not send the disks... 1 year later I got my disks in the settlement offer, after I had to buy a new licence of XP because the HP OEM serial number would not activate on the retail version disks I had...

It was cheaper for me to build my own servers, but when it comes time to getting a desktop or laptop - I go with Dell...

Granted, I don't buy their cheapest model, but their cheapest model is designed for the MS Office user - not a power user...

Oh, my Dell desktop at my office, which runs everything from Photoshop to AutoCAD to Visual Studio 2005, with dual head 21 inch monitors - has been rock solid since March of 2000 also. Still on it's first install of OS. It was a $2000 model, and all I have done since is install a few more gigs of ram and a DVD burner... Visual Studio 2005 is making it show it's age - but then again, most people are complaining about VS2005 being a bust in terms of performance...

So, I agree that Dell is not perfect, but much better than the other "big name guys" in my opinion...

[velvetjo 0]

Here's a good reference. Ars Technica usually has some pretty good info on this type of stuff.

Lance

[mattjw916 2]

Sorry dude, but your experience with Dell is the exception, not the rule. In the mission-critical computing environment HP servers are pretty much the standard by which everyone else is judged. Do-it-yourself servers, while fine for mom and pop operations, have no place where data integrity and availability are large concerns.

When you shell out the money for something like an HP Proliant server you are getting the result of a huge amount of engineering and testing as well as significant on-site service and next-day parts replacement guarantees. These systems are not just thrown together using off-the-shelf components but are rigorously tested and integrated to withstand extreme use. Additionally, these systems are constantly updated, supported, and spares made available long after their production is ceased. That is the difference between homebrewed and highly engineered mass-produced systems that have legions of engineers and integrators available for support.

I have yet to work with any vendor that didn't occasionally have hiccups with a particular model at one time or another. I have deployed or worked on just about every type of system in existence: Cray, SGI, IBM, Sun, HP/Compaq, and Dell... my experience with Dell is that they are the Wal-Mart of the computer industry, more interested in volume than quality and it really shines through the more you have to use them. Hell, the company's business-model revolves around this concept.

Personally I think all consumer-grade PCs are junk. The business-class systems are always superior. Also, nowadays it is pretty common for vendors to not include a "restore disk" with a new system and often use a hidden partition on the modern giant hard drives to reimage systems in the event of failure especially since the pre-installed software is too big to fit on a CD easily. I know for a fact Dell uses this method on some of their models as well.

As a matter of fact, I just had a Dell Linux laptop completely eat itself in the middle of some very important work about a month ago... did they have it fixed overnight like my HP would have been? Nope.

As for your OEM vs retail Windows XP licensing issues I'm sorry but that is an end-user education issue. OEM WinXP disks will only work in the vendor's system they are specifically designed for. Retail copies work on anything, but require "activation". The 25-digit keys are not interchageable between OEM and retail disks. There are several other permutations of the install disks but it's way beyond the scope of the issues raised here to explain it further.

In short, this is why computer integration and support should be left to the professionals. When I have rigging work, I take it to a rigger, a good one... when I need a server built, I let the professionals handle it and leverage their expertise and support processes as necessary. Of course, I happen to be one of those top-tier consultants that spends 90% of my time cleaning up behind all the shade-tree computer techs and self-appointed "l33t" users, so you could say I have a much different perspective when I hear people complaining about their computer problems.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[n23x 0]

All I can hear is the self-bolstering whispers of:

"I hacked the Gibson."

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[YISkyDive 0]

My brother recently built a PC editing station for an athlon XP 64 3200. It works great with his Sony Camera. I think he has some 3CCD higher end TRV? Beats me what he has. He makes a lot of BMX bike videos and is in the process of shooting for a DVD.

He went with Cyberpowerinc.com and it worked out very well.

I custom built my editing station, on a barebones from them.

Price wise they are not bad- a few things that I like.. if you have a legal OEM windows, you can get the PC with any crap and still get it built and formatted ready for an OS install.

I also like that you can choose from "generic" parts to brandname parts. for example.. for my application, memory is memory so I save 20bucks on a 512 for going with the 'generic' company instead of 'kingston' or what ever it is.

They also are good with RAID stuff. You can get a RAID controller and if your looking for speed in rendering this maybe an area to help with that. Im not sure if this is a major joke point (I havent gotten around to raiding my HDs on my editing machine) but at one point I would like to test it and see if Premier Pro responds well to it. From the little I know about RAID- when done properly it increase HD writing speeds pretty well- but if you loose a drive you lost your info. You need a minium of three hard drives to do this safetly. A standalone windows drive with a back up partition. And two identical hard drives to RAID. I forget if RAID0 or RAID1 is what we are looking for- but know its an option if you find out it is a promising investment. Easy to do with them.

Also you can select any graphics card you want. Some editing programs allow for assited 3d graphics card for "real time rendering"- I put that in quotes because some programs mean the play window while others under certain encoding settings.

The best way that I have found to make DVDs fast is with a DVD recorder on the S-Video out of your PC. You export your project in a "raw" D-AVI and than play it on your PC and hit record on the DVD recorder set up to the PC. It totally totally beats MPEG2 or .VOB conversion programs- because not only do you have to convert projects, but also you have to burn them. Here is play an burn.

Finally, you can choose other features- TVCapture cards, DVDRW(+/- +-), how many CD/ DVD drives you want and exactly what motherboard you use. Even the Case is selectable. You can get a ATX or a Server size case. I go with the server case b/c of heat distribution. Too small of a case puts hot components way to close to each other. Large case also has more room for more fans.

These guys are cheep(er) than building a barebones kit for sure, especially when you consider time-

Obviously for some of the deal systems you do find downfalls-

1) Their wiring is subpar. If you care about this- AKA have a windowed PC it looks like Ass. I spent 2 hours cleaning up and rewiring. In my opinion purely astetic...

2) On the first PC I ordered from them (3 years ago) I actually got shipped a PC with a heatsink knocked off. Thats annoying.. some tech screwed up bad. I havent had a PC from them since (2) that I needed to call customer service over.. they where always realy helpful but obviously that was a downfall.

If you want a video editing PC id recommend this company- much cheeper than alienware(you do give up high performance cooling though- but thats a bonus I have always lived without and been fine when I have been OC and pushing my PCs) and if you own a OEM windows its automatically a cheeper Price. The bonus of selecting what motherboard, what video card, what memory to the make and model is very nice.

Finally if your serious about a video editing system- research the AMD*2 ( I think thats what they are called) processors. Future Adobe Priemer Pro and other higher end video apps will support this archietecture(sp?!?) and allow direct enconding with both processor. This is an area I briefly explored- but my personal budget shut me down so I never fully researched it.

Good luck!

Dave.

Sorry for the horrible spelling/ grammar / typos.. its 2:10AM I have to get up for class in a few hours.


Side note- not to thread-jack, does anyone use a PC or laptop to video edit tandem videos? If so what are your average edit times?

[VectorBoy 0]

the funny thing is - I am now editing video on my laptop, and having great results... I have an external firewire hard drive in case my 80 gigs on my laptop is not enough... The DVD burner means I can even make DVDs in the waiting area of the tunnel for teammates, like I did last time I was at Eloy...

[tdog 0]

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the funny thing is - I am now editing video on my laptop, and having great results... I have an external firewire hard drive in case my 80 gigs on my laptop is not enough... The DVD burner means I can even make DVDs in the waiting area of the tunnel for teammates, like I did last time I was at Eloy...

Which one did you get?

[tdog 0]

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Sorry dude, but your experience with Dell is the exception, not the rule. In the mission-critical computing environment HP servers are pretty much the standard by which everyone else is judged. Do-it-yourself servers, while fine for mom and pop operations, have no place where data integrity and availability are large concerns.

Tell that to Google... They built their systems on "do-it-yourself servers"...

Tell that to the hundreds (albeit not thousands) of employees at my company that would not get a paycheck if the SQL server went down on payday - and would lose all their business e-mail to customers - and would lose the ability to track millions of dollars in bills...


But we digress, this thread is about powerful desktops, not servers... Even if I liked HP products at the server level, I would warn anyone from getting them at the consumer level.

I have a friend who's company manages the computer networks at 35 large doctor's offices. Each office would not be able to see patients if their network went down. And, if the data was lost, medical records would be gone, and HIPPA requires secure systems. He switched to Dell from other brands for servers and poweruser desktops - and has had great luck - even for Dell products as Citrix terminal servers - with just Wyse dumb terminals at the desktop. He shares the same opinion as I do about the consumer and low to mid range HP products.

Brand loyalty is a great thing. I am glad you are HP loyal... I am not, unless it is a network switch or printer. So, I would say your comment that my experience is the exception might be a little too accusitory.

[mwabd1 0]

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Side note- not to thread-jack, does anyone use a PC or laptop to video edit tandem videos? If so what are your average edit times?

I have been using my homebuilt PC for a few years now to edit...and I did not build it for that purpose...average edit time is 15-30 minutes on a tandem video...........BUT average render time is an additional 20 minutes per DVD (using an AMD 1800, 512 RAM) which is why I am wanting to build a new PC.....and I want to switch to Premiere (sp) as I have been using Pinnacle Studio up until now.