clint 1 #51 June 20, 2005 Your not giving them less service. YOU think it's less service. The students choose what they want. IF they have a choice of video, it's not giving them less service if they choose, is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #52 June 20, 2005 That would depend on what you consider "less" (there are LOTS of reasons that we could argue to death). There are shots you can get under canopy that I can't get... But I think the traditional exit and opening shots from my point of view are more dramatic. I have a question... With the handycam, what are you doing during opening? Are you holding it out front trying to "get the shot," or are your hands on the risers? Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #53 June 20, 2005 Nicely said. The dz's make more money with handcam. They get that slot with a fun jumper and they make money on the video. WIN WIN. I have 3500video jumps and I have 15 handcam jumps now and I really love the handcam for opening and undercanopy. That is where the best video is. The words that come out of the mouths of the students during and after opening is absoulutely the best video you can get. The facial expressions during opening, Priceless. Can outside video do that, Nope. The only expression that the outside video guy gets is very little on opening and after landing. You are not as pumped up on landing as you are during/after opening. I have my own small cessna 206 dz and it's silly to have outside video here. It's 100F for 3months and the field elevation here is 4500'MSL, so putting another 200lbs in the plane, takes longer to get to altitude, dont' make as much off the video because I have to pay $40 for the video person. Or I can do handcam, dont' have to put another person in the plane or you can put a fun jumper, extra $20, instead of losing $40. You pay the Inst. an extra $25-30. So you make $30 by not putting the outside video person. Times that by 5 loads per day....hmmm I like saving $150 a day? Makes sense to me and the video is even better if you do it right. If the tdm master can't shoot video then of course the video will suck. my .2cents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #54 June 20, 2005 Getting the shot, what else? I'm a video guy in a tandem's body. Hands on risers, only if you feel a problem. Otherwise you dont' really need your hands up there. THe shots on exit with outside video is very nice to see. Opening shots are much, much, much better than outside video if you do it right. But it's different in all situations. I don't have a real outside video person full time. So for me Handcam is the best option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mwabd1 0 #55 June 20, 2005 Hey I'll put my outside videos against any handcam job any day, any time! If your a DZO and you need the extra $ then I can see your point but I don't see videot's becoming extinct anytime soon! ___________________________________________.......I hereby reject your reality and instead choose to insert my own! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #56 June 20, 2005 I am sorry but handcam in freefall just plain sucks. Remember the video isnt just for the tandem student. It is passed round friends and family. I can say that if you showed a video of inside and outside video to a family audience, the one with the "WOW" factor is definately outside. So DZO's who want to play the numbers game think about this. If more people are excited by outside video and this generates more "passengers" than handcam, which is the better option??? Admittedly outside video misses the opening, but surely some compromise can be reached. Sell the video to the camera guys so they can incorporate it into their video. That way the customer will have a better product, be more pleased, tell more people, generate more income and bingo!!!! everyone wins. Just a thought. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #57 June 20, 2005 I think thats hard to say without seeing his video (or yours for that matter). Before the flaming starts lets understand that I only shoot (and at my DZ there will only be) outside video. I think its pretty arrogant of someone who has just over 500 jumps to say things like QuoteHey I'll put my outside videos against any handcam job any day, any time! But I don't think that at 15 handycam jumps Clint can really say how good or bad it is yet either. There are certain shots that it is great for, but there are certain things that it can't do. There are people out there that I'm sure are shooting great video with it, and people that are shooting crap (and the same applies to outside video). I've asked a lot of questions about it interfering with emergency procedures (I am NOT a TI, but the guys at our DZ with over 500 tandems all seem to feel the same way). I think that time will tell... Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mwabd1 0 #58 June 20, 2005 QuoteI think its pretty arrogant of someone who has just over 500 jumps to say things like Hey I'll put my outside videos against any handcam job any day, any time OK maybe I have a high opinion of myself but.......you have never seen my work so I don't think that it too arrogant..........but if all you judge by is jump numbers than I guess that your opinion is as good as mine! I am willing to bet that most people who shoot outside video would be willing to put their work against a handcam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #59 June 20, 2005 Admittedly outside video misses the opening(quote) What? I don't miss the opening shots. Do you? LOL And pulling high and not jumping a pocket rocket lets me fly no contact crew and get all of the canopy ride down. The students love to get film of them under canopy and the stills sell well too, there's not much I miss durring the jump, but the audio, and if I really wanted it I could just mic the student, but more a pain in the ass then it worth. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #60 June 20, 2005 I was meaning the Tandem students reaction after opening........ and I bet you dont get that shot on every tandem So, back to the tread, why not combine all the "best" footage??? BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #61 June 20, 2005 What you haven't tried a Mr bill with a TDM ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #62 June 20, 2005 That is your opinion. I think if you put the 2 side by side, you'll get more excitement from the handcam, just from the opening and under canopy shots. As for the handcam video's you've seen, you must not have good tdm inst. that can shoot video. That's where it's at. You have to be good at handcam for it to be good video. So before you 'think' that outside video is definetly better try an experiment and then come back to this thread. I've done it. I offer 2 forms of video and guess what, YOUR WRONG!!! I have 75% handcam over the outside video. Just because of the opening shot and flying under the canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #63 June 20, 2005 I have tried a MR. BILL with a tandem. I held on for 5 seconds until the final opening shock. That was a bad ass shot. >I am willing to bet that most people who shoot outside video would be willing to put their work against a handcam! BRING IT ON! Just wait 2-3 years from now. It will be 50% handcam and 50% outside video. THere are pros and cons for both. Let the students decide! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #64 June 20, 2005 Do you have a price difference? Years ago at my DZ when I was first starting they offered either 10k tandems or 13k tandems (same plane, different passes). Almost everyone in my class asked for the 10k tandem since it was about $20 cheaper and thats the only reason. Luckly we had 2 people that wanted the 13k so they convinced the rest of us to get it too. A few $ might not seem like a lot of money but I know people that drive 10 minute out of their way to save 2 cents per gallon on gas, offer them a $15 or $20 savings on something as expensive as a skydive and they will be all over that deal even if they don't get as good of an experience.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #65 June 21, 2005 Good Point. We charge 69 VHS and 85 DVD for outside Video. We charge 59 VHS and 75 DVD for handcam. $10 makes a difference??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #66 June 21, 2005 $10 totally makes the difference, why do you think so few people usually buy stills? The added cost of $25 on top of a $175 skydive and a $70 video is totally enough to have most consumers not interested in purchasing the additional stills up front.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #67 June 21, 2005 QuoteThat is your opinion. So before you 'think' that outside video is definetly better try an experiment and then come back to this thread. I dont suppose its also because handcam is cheaper and the sales pitch is geared towards it? People who are new to anything can be generally steered into a direction by someone they consider to be "professional". Therefore giving a larger uptake of the cheaper, imho substandard, video option. I did an experiment, in a scientifically controlled environment, and can definatley say that 3 out of 4 of my cats preferred the outside video..... But my "opinion" still stands that handcam footage in freefall SUCKS. Bryn .....and if you want to patronise me some more you may want to "think" about patting me on the head....Journey not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #68 June 21, 2005 QuoteGood Point. We charge 69 VHS and 85 DVD for outside Video. We charge 59 VHS and 75 DVD for handcam. $10 makes a difference??? Just a question.... If its better, why do you charge less? Service is service.... And if its better, wouldn't it be worth more? Or are you just looking for the easy sale by making it cheaper? Do you have some shots of the Mr. Bill? Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #69 June 21, 2005 QuoteBut my "opinion" still stands that handcam footage in freefall SUCKS. You must have seen some really shitty handy then.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #70 June 21, 2005 I haven't seen any handycam footage at all. Do handycam TM's do any ground footage, interviews, or ride to altitude footage? My videos are typically 10 minutes long, I video bits of their ground school (if I can), their prep, I set the pace of shots to their selected music, talk to them on the ground and if their friends are there then I try to get them involved, I get shots of the ride to altitude, get the pilot to wave out the window (depending on the aircraft, then on the skydive I try my best to get them to smile by sticking out my tongue and making stupid faces. On the ground I have time to have a last conversation while the TM is gathering his gear, and then it's off to the dubbing board. These are all things that add significant quality to the video that is above and beyond simply having a camera in your face. I do like it that the handcam gets the closeup on exit and opening. Those are two completely priceless bits that I wish I could have. It would be great to be able to dub those and a bit of the canopy ride into the footage. It's very easy to do, I just don't know if the extra luggage would be worth it to the TM."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #71 June 21, 2005 I agree. It has some great possibilities.... But how do they do the landing shot while they are flaring? Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #72 June 21, 2005 QuoteYou must have seen some really shitty handy then. To be honest most I have seen is shitty, and I have seen lots...... BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #73 June 21, 2005 QuoteI agree. It has some great possibilities.... But how do they do the landing shot while they are flaring? you have to flare out in front of you, it's actually pretty easy, and you keep the both of you in the shot the whole time. I'll work on posting one.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #74 June 22, 2005 I ran a sale this weekend that worked out real nice .It cost a few bucks and a bit of time but it was worth it.I gave a free 8 x 10 with every video bought .If they payed for the stills up front i knocked off and additional $10.00 from the still photo price .If they decided after landing they wanted the still files ,they are full price.It worked out great! I managed to sell most of them the stills before hand due to the $10.00 savings .. A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #75 June 22, 2005 Gee.. and $10 was'nt to make a difference huh? Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
