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Fuzzy 0
QuoteAll of our video flyers are home grown.
He will have to do at least 1 outside with me and 1 spec with me shooting outside (after we talk about all the stuff that we don't allow).
Thanks
We're pretty much in the same boat in that anyone wanting to do this is already known by us, but this lets me know my thinking is not out of line.
As and aside - One other thing we look for is a good personality. Tandems pay good money so the video person is part of making it fun and needs to be able to interact with the tandems in air and on the ground.
Oh yeah - They also have to have the ability to NOT MAKE a tandem go low because they got over top of it (they are to never get over top of it period - end of story.....). That WOULD be the last video jump at our place. The TI would see to that before I got a chance.
Glad to see my feelings of "NEVER EVER GET IN THE WAY" are not out of line on this one either.
Thanks again
Fuzzy
Fuzzy
Ambition / Ability: Know the difference.
Quotewell daves post about the tandem deploying while the camera man is up by the canopy
well who is a fault?
in my mind the tandem master
Just to be clear, I was refering to a high fall rate tandem, that the newbie video guy was struggling to stay with.
All it would take is any physical reaction from the camera flyer to the TI's going in for the pull. Even an attempt to back up when you are at 101% of your fall rate will produce some float. Given it's a newbie, I could see that float being accompanied by some forward drive, and there you have the camera flyer in the lines.
I agree that it is stupid for the TI to dump with someone above him, HOWEVER, of the few tandems I have done, none were with video, but I can say that I felt as if I had several blind spots above me. I can also say that at pull time, I wanted to pull, and if I had lost my video guy, a quick scan of what I could see is all I would give before releasing the drouge.
That being said, if a skydiver cannot commit to being able to abide by the safety requirements of shooting video 100% OF THE TIME, WITH NO EXCEPTIONS, they should not be jumping with any tandems in any situation. Period.
Pendejo 0
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I agree, our guys have a set routine (that they come up with) they use for the interview ect, but they still can't sound like they are reading it (unlike me ).
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Oh yeah - They also have to have the ability to NOT MAKE a tandem go low because they got over top of it (they are to never get over top of it period - end of story.....). That WOULD be the last video jump at our place. The TI would see to that before I got a chance.
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Same here, the TI'S (understandably) would be kicking ass while I was asking what the heck happened.
Pendejo
He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!
Fuzzy 0
Quotewhat .......is a tandem master doing deploying a canopy while somebody is beside/above it?
Gotta call Bull Sh.. on this one.
What's the TI to do, wait until when 3000' - 2000' in hopes that the person will get out of the way or back in view? You can wave to signal "somethings about to happen" but beyond that, he needs to get a parachute out.
Did this TI wave in this case? Not that it really matters as the camera person should not have been over the tandem (especially at that alt.) If the person following was not able to stay altitude aware and know that it was time to "not be up there" (especially while filming a tandem) then that person should not have had a camera and should not have been following a tandem. Plain and Simple.
I do tandem video, but am also a TI (as are many people on this list) - My feeling, the responsibility is 100% on the video person to stay out of the way.
If someone follows me, & I can't see them when deployement time is coming (visibility & mobility can be somewhat restricted when you have someone strapped to your chest) - I will wave like a frantic lunatic, then get a parachute over our heads when its time - not later. If it turns out the person was above me, they WILL get their ass chewed off for endangering my passanger.
When I do video & it's getting near "that time", I am in front and below where the TI can see me, and where I can see the passangers smiling face, that's my job (not to get a advert for the tandem rig). **Edited to say** I back off enough that I'm not going to be kicked by the tandem etc**
Again
If someone doesn't have the ability or skills to maintain alititude awareness &/or stay out of the way and be safe while doing video maybe they should not have a camera on just yet.
Maybe do a poll to see what the general consensus is on who is responsible. If I'm wrong, I will gladly conceed the point (although my feelings won't change).
Fuzzy
Fuzzy
Ambition / Ability: Know the difference.
rhys 0
QuoteNEVER... AND I MEAN F**KING NEVER... UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE ABOVE A TANDEM AFTER THEY EXIT TILL THEY LAND. NO EXCEPTIONS IF I SEE IT (and I do all the editing so I will) YOU ARE DONE. NO QUESTIONS ASKED
so when you say above do you mean directly above in the burble or above and to the side?
i do a high (and underneath) orbit on every jump i get above the drouge (and to the side) and the photo/video is absolutly amazing as we have an amazing veiw.
your customers do not get the product they could get because you uys are scared of an incident that may happen. 5t is up to the tandem master to decide whether somebody can jump with them and if they think they may not be up to scratch then they can decide to tell them they cannot jump with them.
if the decide they can and the jumper is not very experienced then IT IS UP TO THE TANDEM MASTER to breif the person in question what to do. floating is what happens to most newbies including me when i started. there could have been many ways out of this situation. the best i believe is have the dytter set at 6500' as i do always (so i can freefly on photo only jumps to 15000' )
i bet you guys get boring shot of sitting in front of the tandem pair because camera flyers would be scared to piss you off.
thats not fair to your good paying customers."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
rhys 0
QuoteGotta call Bull Sh.. on this one.
What's the TI to do, wait until when 3000' - 2000' in hopes that the person will get out of the way or back in view? You can wave to signal "somethings about to happen" but beyond that, he needs to get a parachute out.
wel i gotta call bull shit on your call.
yes the tandem master should go lower if someone is in thier blind spot(beside the drouge) tandem canopies are huge, people have pulled lower than 5000' without incident huge amounts of times. if you have a newbie with you (i'll say it again incase you didn't get it the first time) IT IS THE TANDEM MASTERS RESPONSABILITY to brief the newbie what to do and WHAT NOT TO DO!
a tandem pair and a photographer together are a team.
you all work together the t.i. and the photographer SHOULD talk with the customer make them feel as if they are part of the jump (not just tagging along, who's paying for it remember)
it shouldn't be,
'the tandem master' gotta get my $40 i hope the camera guy doesn't get in the way. i'm scared.
'the photographer' gotta get the shot and keep the framing. what are those shots the t.m. is too scared of me doing again.
'the customer' gee these guys take this so seriously i wonder if they have fun anymore?
lighten up. have faith in your equipment and let the photographer get the shot they want. trust them. if you can't, tell them. if they are a newbie HELP them by telling them what is safe and what isn't
if you are a t.m. don't under any circumstances release the drouge if there is sombody right beside it. you will be responsable for the collision and will probably die as well.
think of the different options there are to dumping because it is 5000'"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
rhys 0
If someone doesn't have the ability or skills to maintain alititude awareness &/or stay out of the way and be safe while doing video maybe they should not have a camera on just yet.
so you look at your alti while you are shooting video? or you had the built in height awarness when you started? and those who don't shouldn't bother starting? i agree they should be safe able to stay out of the way if need be. but come on man you gotta start somewhere.
-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --
Fuzzy 0
Quoteso you look at your alti while you are shooting video? or you had the built in height awarness when you started? and those who don't shouldn't bother starting? i agree they should be safe able to stay out of the way if need be. but come on man you gotta start somewhere.
No I don't look at my altimeter while shooting video (I don't wear one when videoing tandems - you want to slam me - slam me for that) I do however wear audible(s) but as a back up only. I also do not recommend jumping without an alti, it's just how I do it.
Sense of timing is a big thing in my mind - If someone has not built up some kind of an internal clock to the point they know the skydive is coming to an end, then I'm saying they probably shouldn't be shooting that type of video just yet, whether that be Tandem, freefly, RW whatever - (My Opinion)
I just started learning headdown - my internal clock / sense of timing and skill level in this are such that I do wear an altimeter on these jumps, I **do not** wear my camera head down and don't plan on doing so for some time.
Quotecome on man you gotta start somewhere.
You are absolutly right. At our place, you can start when you have proven you can stay out of the way / get out of the way / not be in the way when it's time.
QuoteIT IS THE TANDEM MASTERS RESPONSABILITY to brief the newbie what to do and WHAT NOT TO DO!
Again absolutly right - I don't know it the TI did so in your example, but what does the TI do when that "newbie" doesn't do what he was told to do? It doesn't take long to go from 5000' to 4000', then 3000' etc. Have a collapsed drogue in tow or some other crappy mal then the 3000' to 2000', time is even shorter. Why put him in that situation in the first place.
I am on a small DZ where there are not too many people who are going to follow me on a tandem (deffinetely no strangers). Those who do follow me know not get above me or out of my line of sight.
Yes, you can pop up and orbit a tandem pair and get the "cool shot" nothing really wrong with that, but you can do so without being in the way of a suprise deployment.
Bottom line, speaking as a camera guy - "I" feel it's "my" responsibility to stay out of the way of the tandem, and making sure people following them do the same (includes not being in a situation where I/they can end up hitting the Tandem or get sucked into the burble), I / we can & do still get the "good shots" and still haven't gotten bored.
Anyone wanting to do video at the place I work has to feel and do the same.
You're place has a different policy, if it works and the TI's are cool with it, hey, more power to you.
Fuzzy
Fuzzy
Ambition / Ability: Know the difference.
flypunk 0
AgainQuote
If someone doesn't have the ability or skills to maintain alititude awareness &/or stay out of the way and be safe while doing video maybe they should not have a camera on just yet.
so you look at your alti while you are shooting video? or you had the built in height awarness when you started? and those who don't shouldn't bother starting? i agree they should be safe able to stay out of the way if need be. but come on man you gotta start somewhere.
so by this you are putting the blame on the camera guy who shouldn't have had a camera in his head, cuz he :
A. didn't have the ability or skills to maintain altitude awareness (enough to know that pull time was near)
B. didn't have the ability or skills to be safe (by not being on top of the tandem at pull time)
yes you gotta start somewhere.... but if you screw up, don't try to blame the TI for not taking care of the mess you made.
...
Pendejo 0
Quoteso when you say above do you mean directly above in the burble or above and to the side?
I meant directly above or in close proximity.
Quotei do a high (and underneath) orbit on every jump i get above the drouge (and to the side) and the photo/video is absolutly amazing as we have an amazing veiw.
We do the lower orbit with the tandem turning the other way. I agree it makes for cool video.
Quoteyour customers do not get the product they could get because you uys are scared of an incident that may happen.
Fear has little to do with having a standard that is an attempt to be as safe as we can.
Quote5t is up to the tandem master to decide whether somebody can jump with them and if they think they may not be up to scratch then they can decide to tell them they cannot jump with them.
See number 5 of my post on the previous page.
Quoteif the decide they can and the jumper is not very experienced then IT IS UP TO THE TANDEM MASTER to breif the person in question what to do.
See number 3 of my post on the previous page. This is where they get the briefing from me.
Then see number 7. This is where the Tandem Instructor gives the briefing to them.
Quotefloating is what happens to most newbies including me when i started.
This is why we do number 6 of my post on the previous page. I can fall faster than most tandems (in drouge fall). I give them the faster fall rate to work with, see how they handle it, and then discuss it on the ground.
Quotethere could have been many ways out of this situation. the best i believe is have the dytter set at 6500' as i do always (so i can freefly on photo only jumps to 15000' )
I agree. All of the video guys at our DZ wear an audible
Quotei bet you guys get boring shot of sitting in front of the tandem pair because camera flyers would be scared to piss you off.
Some would say that is true. I have yet to see a customer say " geez, why didn't you get that shot from above like he did." What I have had happen is customers asking why didn't he get in front of me like in the other video (and yes the other video had his 15 seconds of face time)...
Quotethats not fair to your good paying customers.
We could debate this to death.... I think that when the customer leaves thanking the video guy, and is talking about how they can't wait to show the video to their friends and family, they got what they wanted and what they paid for.
Pendejo
He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!
Cheers,
Travis
I agree 100% with you. A TI should not have to worry at all where the cameraflyer is. This is the trust that must be demonstrated and understood. A TI has alot on their plate working with their student they do not need the extra worry of an inexperienced cameraflyer.
(and yes, the post above yours makes me want to rant, too).
ltdiver
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
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