Camera people & neck injuries

[Tinkerbelle 5]

OK Kids....
Here's a good one that baffles me!...
How is it that camera people don't all have neck problems? It would seem that if just regular openings expecially hard openings can leave a regular neck hurting, what on Earth do camera people do about the fact that they have between 5-20 extra pounds of stuff bobbling on the end of their poor necks? Just thinking of the mechanics of opening, I can see how my C 5-6,6-7 got compromised from over bending like a wire bent too many times... Not only do I have 2 herneated discs there, and bone spurs, but I also have severe arthritis at the fascet joints. Wouldn't putting all that extra weight on the top of your head and the end of that "lever arm" made the neck that much more vulnerable? Why don't camera people end up with neck problems twice as fast or likely as a normal jumper? Are they concerned about this? What sort of precautions do they take? I know Mikey McGowan weight lifts all day long and has a thick neck and shoulders like a Sherman Tank! And you know what they say about guys with thick necks! Ha Ha... he would appreciate that inuendo... But what do others do? Special gear? What gear? Special strengthening exercises and stretches? Which ones, with what regularity? Holding the head and body in a certain position on opening? I know of one great camera girl in Perris who is tall, long, and lanky and has a thin neck. How does she prevent injury?
Tink

Rehab is for quitters.

[skybytch 259]

I think this thread would be better in the video forum. I'll move it there now.

[quade 3]

Canopy selection.
Minimizing the amount of weight carried.
Fitness.
Stretching.

As for the "tall girl", if it's the one I'm thinking of, she's a physical therapist and knows a bit about neck injuries.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jdhill 0]

I typically jump a video, still, and flash, or video and two stills... my helmet weighs between 8 and 10 pounds... and has been as much as 15... a sore neck/shoulders is not uncommon... and I have had to take time off twice due to strains.

Canopy selection is one of the most important things for camera work... that is for the person flying a video/still+ set up... picking the canopy that has the least likelyhood of slamming you is important.

Keeping current helps too... if you are conditioned for the extra weight, and the openings with that weight, you are less likely to get hurt... I took a small break, came back and threw my normal helmet on, had a less than perfect opening, and had to take another few weeks off... so it does happen.

picking the lightest possible gear, and positioning it in the right places on the helmet is also helpful.

Good body position is a plus... and for the particularly heavy load, I will support my helmet with one or both arms during openings.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[riggerrob 558]

What you do on your days off makes a huge difference in how long your neck survives. Have you ever noticed how big Tom Sanders' shoulders are?
The lad enjoys surfing on his days on his days off. Tom also favors modified motorcycle helmets that are really bulky around the bottom. All this prep work helps Tom shrug his shoulders so high they lock his heavy helmet in place for openings.

A good warm-up every morning - before jumping - can also reduce injuries, especially stretching neck muscles.

Finally holding your head front and center can also reduce injuries. For example, the only time I pulled a neck muscle on opening was when I looked sideways at someone - after tossing my pilotchute.

I find it also helps to grab the jaw of my Bonehead immediately after tossing my pilotchute.

[ltdiver 3]

Tall "LightDiver" here.

Who said that cameraflyers don't get injured? Most have been at one time or another. We just don't broadcast it.

I've jumped with a less than optimum fitness before (ankle navicular bone dislocation) and (ulnar nerve inpingment similar to tennis elbow which translated up to my shoulder). The ankle was from a hard landing....the shoulder was from....well...I'll not go into that here.... ...but it wasn't skydiving.

Anyway, what jdhill and quade already mentioned are important points.

I spent alot of time researching the best camera set-up in keeping it light but still completely steady and functional...before buying. I also had a camera mentor who had over 10,000 camera jumps to his credit.

Second was canopy selection. I started with a Diablo-120 but upsized to a Spectre-135 when my wing loading had to go up (read keep up with fast 4-way teams and heavy tandems). I currently load my canopy at 1.4+:1 with all my gear and lead.

I'm also very picky about my pack jobs. If I hire a packer they have to pack my canopy to open slower than it's normal self. I have 3 packers who I trust and adjust their packing method to suit my terms of a slow opening (read an -actual- 1,000 foot opening). I had one packer who -said- they'd pack it slow but DID NOT. I commented that I needed it slowed down MORE, and they agreed to do so....it opened FAST again! I DO NOT use that packer anymore. If they are the only one there at the DZ, then I pack my own (even on fast turns).

Balance of the camera suite on your head is of prime importance. My old helmet (daBomb) was great, but when I went with a heavier still camera I switched to a BatRak. The balance wasn't right (for my size and neck) for a heavy still camera to be mounted on the front. I baked the BatRak 3 different times to get the balance and fitting correct and balanced.

Posture on opening has been discussed here in the video forum ad nauseum. Basically, head straight ahead, balanced and looking at the horizon.

ROM (range of motion) is needed just as much as strength. I do stretches every day as well as upper body and neck strengthening exercises. It's great to have a 'personal gym' to train in after work each day! I just change from work to gym clothes and walk right back into our fully equipped P.T. gym!

All of the above will lessen the body injuries a cameraflyer might have, but it won't prevent them. I know of one particular cameraflyer who kept abusing his shoulder and elbow on climb-out. He took some time off, got some physical therapy of his own and was back in the air in a few months. However, his injury still remains. Should he stop? It's up to him. Every injury -will- result in permanent disability later in life (read: when you get old), but staying fit will limit just how much it will incapacitate you.

ltdiver
btw, my car accident last year (when someone blasted through a stop sign and T-boned me) did more to injure my shoulder, elbow, and neck than any skydiving has ever done!

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[CaTo 0]

no neck problems?
see my web page, under the about-section.... Neck hernia, arhitis, i've got it all. but you can jump with it, if you are carefull and use the right equipment and do some excersises in the gym (and its helps to be a little crazy

Caren

[ltdiver 3]

Caren,

I see you use the bullet cam. How do you like it?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[CaTo 0]

Quote

Caren,
I see you use the bullet cam. How do you like it?
ltdiver

until now, very good, but i only made 4 jumps with it, in very cold circumstances (some fogyness, after removing he protected glass that disappeaed)
hope o make some more jumps next weekend, I will keep posting jump reports and camera-shots on my site.
if you want to know specifics, just ask.

Caren

[Tinkerbelle 5]

Hi There, It's you!
Howzit? It always amazes me how you do it!
Hope it was OK to mention you. I've gotten in trouble in that past for making specific references, but I did want to give you credit for being one of the few, the brave, the women camera flyers!
Say "HI" to everyone around Perris for Annie Brolly!
Wish Kate God's speed on her recovery! Give Tony Bear Dominico a hug, & give Quade a huuuuggggeee hug & a kiss for being the one brave soul sticking up for me on this forum amid a flury of misunderstanding and malice!
Say "HI" to Pat Conatser & Melanie if she is around and Monny & Daddy Contser & Dominique and Brett, & most importantly,... the unforgatable Moosecat!
Miss you guys!
Annie
Keep videoing! Do you ever get neck problems? What kind of canopy do you have? How much does your camera weigh? Being a PTist.... what kind of strngthening and stretches do you recommend for the neck? Is your neck still in one piece?
Tink

Rehab is for quitters.

[Tinkerbelle 5]

Say, about body position on opening....
I found it felt better to sit up on opening so the opening shock was straight down rather than pulling you up from horizontal. Is there some reason you can think or why that might not be perferable?
Tink

Rehab is for quitters.

[Tinkerbelle 5]

Say, I tried Melanie's Spectre 107 and it sniveled then popped. I tried a Spectre 120, had ths same experience, pilot chute in tow feeling, then a rapid pop at the bottom. I hated it! Gary Peek suggested I try an old F111. Have you ever considered one of those or know of a camera flyer with oune? Which one? o you use dacron lines? Sorry I asked some of the same Qs you already answered.
Are you scared about an increade in injury rate with camera stuff on your head? What specific neck strengthening stuff do you do? Would you brave skydiving with herneated discs, bone spurs, and arthritis? I have been told it is too dangerous and my land me in a wheelchair. Every medic says no way! But I say, if I can bear it at all, yes way! Is that taking too big of a risk in your honest, professional opinion, or are they just being overly cautious?
Tink

Rehab is for quitters.

[Tinkerbelle 5]

You know that dude from Perris who jumps with a neck brace....
Do you think it is actually helping him or just makes him feel safer?

Rehab is for quitters.

[ltdiver 3]

Annie,

Didn’t know you flew camera. Perhaps this is why all the questions, or are you just trolling for posts? ;^)

Yes, I’ve had neck injuries with flying camera. Mostly from hard openings that some packers seem to love giving. If I pack my own, or have a trusted packer pack for me, this hasn’t happened. A Spectre -can- give a pop-type opening, thus a varied pack job from the ‘norm' I like to give (at least my canopy. I know that quade packs his just like the manufacturer says to and he gets spectacular, soft openings every time....so go figure. It’s got to be canopy specific).

On opening...yes, sitting up in the harness does help translate the force of opening to a more in-line direction. I’ll do this.

As for stretches, it’s hard to type what’s the best ones are here on the internet, but if I can find some web pages that give specific ones that I like I’ll post them here for you. Same for the strengthening exercises. For short, I like Lat Pulls, Chest Press, Rows, Butterflys, and Roman Chair...with some cardio on the bike, StairMaster, or treadmill for good measure. We also have a “Total Gym” that I make good use of for abs and quads too. I do a full hour program each day.

On reading your bio of orthopedic complications, I would advise that you keep a camera off your repertoire. Bone spurs are nothing to sneeze at and can cause severe stenosis on their own. Don’t encourage them, as stress does this.

The weight of my camera helmet is light. My TRV22 weighs only 18.7oz and my Canon 300D weight is 19.7oz plus 20mm lens which weighs .89 lbs. The BatRak and dbox must be around 5 lbs ‘cause my whole camera set-up (with digital camera) weighs a mere 8 lbs.

As for the guy who wears the neck brace at Perris. He doesn’t fly camera. As for feeling ‘safer’? Well, you’d have to ask him. I won’t presume.

Everyone’s doing great at Perris, come on by sometime and say hello to your ‘buds’ yourself sometime. :^)

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[skydiver51 0]

Wouldn't sitting up on opening during a VERY hard opening increase the chance of compression fractures of the vertebrate?? Very hard openings can cause injury no matter what you do. All these suggestions will help minimize them.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Wouldn't sitting up on opening during a VERY hard opening increase the chance of compression fractures of the vertebrate?? Very hard openings can cause injury no matter what you do. All these suggestions will help minimize them.

A VERY hard opening with f@#%ck you up, no matter what you do.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[skydiver51 0]

Ok, how about just a hard opening?

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Ok, how about just a hard opening?

For me, I start to sit up as the canopy is opening. I don't let it jerk me up, but transition with it. By the same token, I don't sit up before it's time.

If it is any kind of hard opening, the canopy will beat me to it anyway. It's jerk will be before my transition can finish.

Does this clarify?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon