BLACK & WHITE photography

[Frodo 0]

If any of you photograph in black&white, can you give me some starter tips? I recently caught this "photo bug", and want to really get the technique down - especially the photography of land/cityscapes, night/low-light, and some other stuff as well. One of the aspects that attracts me is b&w. (If you've never seen photographs by Ansel Adams, check them out - I absolutely love them, they're just something out of this world. Very inspring.)

I'm not interested in developing and printing the pictures myself, at least not yet. Too much variables to deal with, starting from zero.

What I wanted to get y'all's advice on are questions like: what is most important in composing a black-and-white image - lighting, contrast, etc.? Is a certain time of day preferrable? Landscapes-wise, what are some of the subjects that will look particularly interesting in b&w? What filters should I use? (I think the yellow is for greater contrast, but besides that I don't know the purpose of different filters.)

It'd also be really great if you could post some of your work.

(My camera is a used Minolta Maxxum XTsi, in very good condition. Zoom lens, 28-200mm. Very wide range of shutter speeds and apertures. Currently there's an ISO 400 b&w film in it.)

[dropdeded 0]

Somebody here has a way cool site about this, cant remember who but Im sure someone will be along shortly to direct you.

dropdeded

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The Dude Abides.
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[AggieDave 6]

Deleted, since it was a joke and the thread got moved to a serious forum from Talk Back.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Gravitymaster 0]

Try

www.aprilslens.com

She's a skydiver who posts here. I'm sure she would be happy to give some advice.

[bch7773 0]

I've only done black & white when I was developing it myself... and it is fairly easy to do, and you learn a lot. try taking a class at your local college.

but anyways, I found that contrast is very important... since a light blue and a light red just look like gray on the photo. afternoon or morning shadows work well for black & white.
oh, and black & white work well for "gritty" shots... uhhh like scenes of a decaying inner city that you want to convey an emotion with.

filters? the only filters i used was during development... but im sure filters on the lens can do wonders too.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[dropdeded 0]

Try

http://www.aprilslens.com

She's a skydiver who posts here. I'm sure she would be happy to give some advice
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Yep, thats the one.

dropdeded

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The Dude Abides.
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[Frodo 0]

That's a cool site. I, too, had this idea of getting on the airplane with a group of jumpers, to take pictures on the way up and during exits.
I wonder if they'll let me do that in a 182? What would it cost me - $15-20? (only the slot, without jumping)

[Cudlo 0]

Developing your own black and white photos is pretty simple. you just need a dark room, the little projecter lamp thingy(cant remember the name), and 3 trays, two different chemicals, and one with water. if i recall correctly. Developing your own photos gives you a lot more control. Just my opinion.

_________________________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

[Frodo 0]

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Developing your own black and white photos is pretty simple. you just need a dark room, the little projecter lamp thingy(cant remember the name), and 3 trays, two different chemicals, and one with water. if i recall correctly. Developing your own photos gives you a lot more control. Just my opinion.

Well I guess I should consider it sometime... What would I expect to spend on the developing equipment (ballpark? is it closer to $100 or $500?)

But what I'm most interested in learning about is this: how to choose a scene that *should* be photographed in b&w? How to take a picture so that a viewer wouldn't go "This must be a color image. There was no reason to shoot it in black&white"?

[genoyamamoto 0]

developing and printing is more than half the game in b&w. It's easy and you'll never want another person touching your film again after you've tried it. You're really missing out if you never get to develop your own film, use an enlarger or print to fiber paper. That's the best part!

I'd suggest finding an intro to b&w photography course at your local college's art center. They'll have a darkroom available to rent for cheap, with use of their chemicals. Get a good, cheap prime lens (no zoom), maybe a 50mm 1.7 (minolta right?). You can probably pick one up for $30. You'll learn faster that way without the zoom and you'll also get shots that you could never get on any consumer zoom lens. Shoot on manual, even if you use the built in light meter. Bracket your shots. Take notes on every shot you take. Buy a loupe to inspect your negatives.

Stick to one film for a while, kodak tri-x or ilford hp-5 are good films that are easy to develop. T-max is good but harder to develop consistently. Play with pushing and pulling film, expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights. Read ansel adam's books.

What's important in B&W is the same as what's important in any type of photography. Make sure you're happy with your shots. Have fun!

Make sure the b&w film in your camera is not c-41 process b&w.

Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me
Feel the hate...
Photos here

[ZoneRat 0]

If your a student at UT take a class! All the equipment is there for your use!

Also: They have, if I remember correctly, one of the most important collections of b&W photography around in the UT library.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[linestretch 0]

I've done a ton of black and white, and totally agree with everyone suggesting the route of taking a college course. You will find it very rewarding to do all the work yourself. I took this one last winter, it was with 400 speed (tri-x I'm pretty sure) and a red filter. Doing it yourself allows you to crop and enlarge the photo how you please, not too mention how much contrast you want or don't want. And as for filters, I used a red filter for better contrast. I don't remember the #, but you lose a stop or two from it. They also have filters for printing too.

my pics & stuff!

[AndyMan 7]

Here's an odd question that I'm sure will have me being accused of being blasphemous....

What about doing digital black and white? Quite simply, is there any point? I haven't done any black and white photography since I was a kid, but is the black and white digital toolbox at all comparable to the film one?

Are there any profesionals out there shooting digital black and white, or is it simply too much of an anachronism?

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[psw097 0]

I used to develop B&W years ago and liked it. Now, I really enjoy playing with B&W in photoshop. Some cool stuff that can be done adding filters in post before converting to B&W. I read this a couple weeks ago and was interesting:

http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_and_White.html

Don't know if its comparible to film, I don't know enough to answer that one.

[craichead 0]

What do you mean by digital B&W being an anachronism? If anything is an anachronism, it's traditional B&W photography in a digital age. Traditional "wet" photography labs are only going to exist in the fine art world (and in academia), while the rest of the world is going digital.

As Andy knows, I work for the Chicago Historical Society, where we advertise a collection of 1.5 million images, most of which are black and white. We used to provide 8x10, B&W, RC prints for reproduction (at one point in our history, they were printed on really nice double-weight fiber paper) from original glass/nitrate/film negatives. However, in the last year, the wet lab has been dismantled, enlargers donated to schools, and all that equipment has been replaced with scanners and uber-professional dye sublimation and inkjet Epson printers.

Every reproduction we provide now is either a digital file (emailed or burned to CD) or a digital print that is actually a color digital print made to look black and white. However, they never look truly black and white...images tend to be blue, purple, or brownish in color. Some clients actually like this effect of "selenium" or "sepia" toning, which we never really offered before. Now it's a little easier since we can change the tone with the click of a few buttons. So, obviously there are advantages and disadvantages.

Personally, I prefer traditional B&W photography to digital prints, but that's because I was a fine-art photographer in a previous life. Digital photography can't (at least not yet) capture the amount of depth and detail that film can.

_Pm

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"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

[aprilcat 0]

Hi Frodo,

Glad you wanna join the troops. I read the thread and its nice that you like Adams (everyone does), but my favorite is Edward Weston. He took objects and made them sensual, then took people and turned them into objects. There's a link at my site, or just do a 'google' search on his name.

Enlarging equipment is an investment. You can get used equipment and bring it in under $1K. Is it worth it? I'd say so. If I can help you with questions, feel free to email me at my page (I'll get it faster).

Digital is 'the' wave of the future, but analogue film will always be around. There is something special about holding a wet print in your hand while you're trying to figure out if you are happy with it and ways to 'better' your prints. If you use a commercial lab (1 hour photo) be prepared to get more or less 'flat' prints. Hang on to the negatives, if you ever get in a lab, you can bump them up and come up with some interesting prints.

As far as getting photos inside the plane the first thing you want to do is LEAVE YOUR FLASH UNIT ON THE GROUND. You cannot manipulate the lighting, that has to be done in-camera. You don't want to blind anyone before they exit.

I didn't pay for lifts at Raeford. I was lucky enough to have Tony and Kate (HI TONY AND KATE) interested in getting some shots for their bulletin boards/website. I promised everyone that if I used their photos in the lab, I'd send them a copy and gave Kate and Tony a copy of EVERYTHING I shot there.

It will take time, but you will find your style and people will not question why you didn't shoot it in color! Happy shooting and let me know if I can help.~~April
PS - 'bracketing' is exposing the same scene but with different settings (speed, aperture) on the camera... bye!

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[kenneth21441 0]

I learned alot from the New York Institute of Photography..... If you are interested in learning at home.. check them out at:

nyip.com

This site also offers lots of tips on shooting... Even on B&W/ Digital etc....
As far as the course it will teach you everything that you have questions about and more....

Hope that this assist you..

thanks,

Ken....

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[murrays 0]

While on the topic of B & W, a couple of rolls of infrared film might also be very interesting to shoot. As long as you can load the film in complete darkness, etc. you could get some very interesting shots. I think that some ground shots on people landing with trees in the background would look very nice due to the way that ir film records foliage. Here's an example of trees shot with IR film.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[oldfart 0]

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While on the topic of B & W, a couple of rolls of infrared film might also be very interesting to shoot. As long as you can load the film in complete darkness, etc. you could get some very interesting shots.
Infrared rocks!Ilford makes a pseudo IR film that simulates the effects but isn't quite so touchy to handle.It's also a good idea to remember that with IR film,your focal plane will be different so your focus scale will be off.Some older lenses have a separate witness mark on them for IR film.Forget about auto focus and you will need a manual wind camera.Since built in auto wind cameras use an IR light to read the perfs in the film,it will fog IR film.Also it's a good idea to keep the film in dry ice in a cooler before you shoot it,and load in complete darkness.I shot IR motion picture film a few years ago and I had to keep the camera's magazine covered at all times and had to make a few modifications to the camera.
Black and white also offers alot of creativity with color filters.Red filters will bring out a blue sky,green will lighten foliage,etc.

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[freakydiver 0]

That's a highly loaded question - when I had the same questions, I took a class or two at my local community college. Helped huge.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[rfarris 1]

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I'm not interested in developing and printing the pictures myself, at least not yet. Too much variables to deal with, starting from zero.

kodak makes a b&w film that can be processed in C-41(the same chemicals they process your color film in), that despite other's claims, is a very, very good start. You should check it out. Unless you are shooting b&w for a publication or some other type of professional media, you can't go wrong. It will give you a good introduction into b&w photography.

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What I wanted to get y'all's advice on are questions like: what is most important in composing a black-and-white image

Whatever catches your eye.

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what are some of the subjects that will look particularly interesting in b&w?

A BASE jumper doing a 3 sec. delay off a building?

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What filters should I use?

I used to do a lot of portrait photograhpy, very seldom in b&w. But, the green filter is often used in b&w portrait photography. The green filter will smooth the facial blemishes.

Other than that, I believe the orange and red filters will accentuate landscapes, and will darken blue skys.

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My camera is a used Minolta Maxxum XTsi, in very good condition. Zoom lens, 28-200mm. Very wide range of shutter speeds and apertures. Currently there's an ISO 400 b&w film in it.

So why are you not out taking photos?


smile....

Rod