RW Suit Help

[boinky 0]

I'm considering buying an RW suit. RW is NOT my preferred discipline, but a necessary evil, so I don't want to spend a whole ton of money, but am willing to pay for quality and durability (I still fall down and go boom on my landings sometimes).

It would be for recreational RW and the need to slow down my fall rate some (I fall like a rock).

What would YOU recommend and why? I'd also like suggestions for needed options, as I know nothing about these suits.

Nina

Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz)
Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance

[rehmwa 2]

Here's the thread you want -
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1764010#1764010

I think that getting the full competition set options (cordura, booties, inside grippers, etc) up front will save you a LOT of grief later. Full size booties too (they call them big, mega, etc).

Michigan has a good definition in his Tetris suit. I have one and I love it.

My wife builds RW suits now (she's not yet shipping to other states yet for another month or two, sorry) and she's setting up the 'basic' package with the full cordura booties above the knee, reinforced soles, cordura grippers, inside grippers.

It's just the right thing to do.

The right suit can help fall rate problems, but in the end, you do more with your flying abilities

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[boinky 0]

Thank you!

Nina

Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz)
Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance

[mnealtx 0]

Howdy Bill -

For casual RW, are all the "hardcore comp options" (no bootie zips, super grips, inside grippers) really necessary?

I'm about 230 exit weight, 5' 11" and average 125 to 130 depending on what student suit I wear - closer to 130 in a Bev student suit.

I was looking at Flite Suit based on recommendation due to my size/speed - it was mentioned that a small wing might help me a bit.

How much are y'all looking at selling the suits for, and what option do y'all have for us "fall-rate enhanced" folks? I don't mind paying extra for shipping...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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Howdy Bill -

For casual RW, are all the "hardcore comp options" (no bootie zips, super grips, inside grippers) really necessary?

I'm about 230 exit weight, 5' 11" and average 125 to 130 depending on what student suit I wear - closer to 130 in a Bev student suit.

I was looking at Flite Suit based on recommendation due to my size/speed - it was mentioned that a small wing might help me a bit.

How much are y'all looking at selling the suits for, and what option do y'all have for us "fall-rate enhanced" folks? I don't mind paying extra for shipping...

I'll PM about the suit specifics, this forum isn't for advertising.

As far as fall rate stuff - It's my personal opinion that if you don't get inside leg grippers and booties, then you'll want them later. The other stuff (zippers, cordura) is just about durability and sturdiness.

Extra benefit is that the grippers and booties give you more surface area to slow down. (I also think that fitting a suit shape to slow down is ok, but a person can learn to control fall rate better with a single coached tunnel camp. But a loose fit and the choice of material type can't hurt your cause. I'm not a fan of wings and swoop cords, but that's a personal choice.)

So I'm biased to what a few us wrote in the other thread. You have to weigh out what you think you need and what you think you'll 'eventually' need. After all, it's just advice.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

Thanks for the reply, Bill -

I was definitely planning on getting the booties and regular grips - I just didn't see the utility of the more "hardcore" options like "no zipper booties" and inside grips for a casual RW suit, is all.

I agree with your comments about learning to fly my body better - no doubts, there! I *have* hit as slow as 100mph and as fast as 135mph on my belly doing up/down drills. Obviously I haven't needed to work as hard on getting faster!

I figured to get a suit that will get me in the 115-120mph range in a neutral arch. I have to be de-arched nearly flat to get back to 115mph - 100mph I was pretty much "beachballing".

Here were my thoughts on the matter - please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm having to de-arch to get to a "normal" RW speed, then as I'm doing maneuvers, I could very well sink out of the formation or funnel it. If my jumpsuit slows me down a bit to get to that range, then I can fly a neutral position and it leaves me more "control range" to adjust to the speed of the formation.

Am I incorrect in this, or just missing something?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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If I'm having to de-arch to get to a "normal" RW speed, then as I'm doing maneuvers, I could very well sink out of the formation or funnel it. If my jumpsuit slows me down a bit to get to that range, then I can fly a neutral position and it leaves me more "control range" to adjust to the speed of the formation.

Am I incorrect in this, or just missing something?

You got it exactly, best to be comfortable in the fall rate range that the people you jump with are - the suit can't hurt if you pick a slower material and looser cut. I think 115-120 is nuts though. Low 120's should be the comfort zone (IMHO)

Dearching (hugging the beach ball) is not the best way to slow down and still have control - it's horrible.

in short - From a mantis mindset, one can get long and flat and still have your head up and slipping air - I looks like George Reeve from the old time Superman show when he's flying: It's more effective and let's the booties catch air for you - you keep your head up so you have better visibility - you don't generate the bad habit of hunching up your body.

Hands/arms pushed in front - legs straight and toes laid to the sides with bootie taut - roll the shoulders down - cup the hips without spreading your knees. At this point you'd drive forward, so lift the head up high and let that little bit of air slipping counter the lift you're getting from your legs - it's smooth and quick and wastes the minimum of air.

Beach ball: you're unstable - the legs are spread which loses you hip mobility - the knees are bent since they are down so you lost all the bootie surface area right then - your head is down so you lost some visibility if not all of it - most people don't dearch nearly as much as they think they do either. I'm not saying it won't work, just that in comparison, it's not even close as effective. It's also wobbly.

The legs and booties are nearly half your body surface - why hug the beach ball and lose all that????

or something like that

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Remster 24]

Mike,

Being on the heavy side of things too, I wouldnt suggest getting a tight nylon suit if its going to be your 1 suit for a while. I dont know all the manufacturers options, but most should be able to find something similar to the Swoop Suit form Tony from most places, which is an all around suit.

I would really strongly suggest gettiong the mega bootie, or whatever the largest ones from any place has to offer: they will slow you down if you learn how to use them properly. I dont like zippers on my booties: thats the one thing that breaks all the time. I slip the booties on just before bording the plane, and dont bother removing them until after I land.

Same with inside leg grippers. Get them, even if its only for casual RW.

And get some tunnel coaching for your body position. Earlier the better, before you have to unlearn 1400 jumps of old school flying...

Remster

[mnealtx 0]

Thanks, Bill and Remi - I appreciate the advice!

I didn't figure ANY suit that I would be getting at this point would be nylon of any kind. I figured medium weight cotton would be closer to what I'd need.

Booties and reinforced knees/seat is definitely a must, for me. I hadn't considered inside grips, though.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Ron 7]

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I didn't figure ANY suit that I would be getting at this point would be nylon of any kind. I figured medium weight cotton would be closer to what I'd need.

1. Pick a manufactorer...I like Michigan.
2. Call them and tell them your weight and what they recomend...Remember this is what they do for a living.
3. Get the inside grips...They don't cost much and they are nice to have.

Other stuff:
a)Get a suit that will allow you to fall in the best body position at a good fall rate. A good body position will allow a large range of movement...so wear whatever material will make that happen, and what ever tightness you need.

b)I don't like swoop cords, unless you REALLY need them. One min you are at a spacific balance and then next you know you change that.

c)Get the biggest booties you can...They are worth it, and wil slow you down. Grips as well.

d)Zippers...I personally hate them. They are nothing but a failure point on a suit. They might be more comfertable, but a suit with a neck tie is not comfertable either, but you wear it when you work....Same with a jumpsuit. (Of course I put a lot more tunnel and jumps than a good number of people).

In the end its YOUR suit and YOUR skydiving.

I would call a manufactorer and talk to them...They are the Pro's.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

Lot of consensus here.

Still waiting on the "we never had booties back in my day" posts.......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[bob.dino 0]

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Still waiting on the "we never had booties back in my day" posts.......

They don't know how to use computers .

[mnealtx 0]

Thanks, everyone, for the continued suggestions -

Calling is sort of out of the options, since I'm overseas - very hard to get a call through to the States. I *will* email all the manufacturers on my "short list" and get more recommendations from them, though.

A question on the no-zip booties - wouldn't having them loose enough to slip on / off over the shoe make them TOO loose to be fully effective in freefall?

I'd love to make it to a tunnel camp and get coaching, but I don't see it happening anytime soon due to kids/grandbaby/etc... that other kind of "relative work", y'know. Time constraints just won't allow it as far as I can plan ahead for (only get home on vacation twice a year for two weeks).

As for mantis... I need to learn to belly-fly, first!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

Loose booties are just shoe covers. They can come off after landing. Most suits come with booties too loose.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Remster 24]

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A question on the no-zip booties - wouldn't having them loose enough to slip on / off over the shoe make them TOO loose to be fully effective in freefall?

Na... the dimmension that needs to be long enough to allow you to slip them on after beeing geared up is the "foot length" and the elastic in the heel section of the bootie. You can still have a tight bootie from knee to foot in a arch

Remster

[mnealtx 0]

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A question on the no-zip booties - wouldn't having them loose enough to slip on / off over the shoe make them TOO loose to be fully effective in freefall?

Na... the dimmension that needs to be long enough to allow you to slip them on after beeing geared up is the "foot length" and the elastic in the heel section of the bootie. You can still have a tight bootie from knee to foot in a arch

Sorry, Remi...I'm still not "seeing it"...but I'll take y'all's word for it, though!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[bob.dino 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

A question on the no-zip booties - wouldn't having them loose enough to slip on / off over the shoe make them TOO loose to be fully effective in freefall?

Na... the dimmension that needs to be long enough to allow you to slip them on after beeing geared up is the "foot length" and the elastic in the heel section of the bootie. You can still have a tight bootie from knee to foot in a arch

Sorry, Remi...I'm still not "seeing it"...but I'll take y'all's word for it, though!

When you arch and point your toes the bootie goes taut and won't slip. When you crouch and tuck your toes the bootie slides off easily... make sense?

[mnealtx 0]

That helps, thanks!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NWFlyer 2]

I'm a pretty fast faller myself and I really love the "afterburner" booties option on my Bev suit. I'm still learning to use them effectively, but they can *really* help me pop up when I use them to their full effect.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[scottswold 0]

I fall like an anvil with rocks on it, I am learning to slow myself into human freefall speeds with body position a bit better, but my stupid lying protrack still likes to pretend I hit 130+ some times.

I had a Mattar suit made (in Spain for you dodgy euro-types). They make a lot of grippy fabric freefly suits that help slow you down and you can get them to put on RW grips, etc. as well. The suit is quite durable for those occasions when something beyond your control (like poor judgement) causes a bit of an unplanned swoop landing.

But the one thing I found out (expensively) after some tunnel time in Perris is that I really should have got the booties. They aren't that easy to retro-fit so I may be buying my second custom suit in less that 100 jumps.

Someone more experienced than me correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the booties will not just slow you down but make your feet more useful in general (like getting forward drive out of your legs).

A mind is like a parachute- mine is badly packed and may not work

[rehmwa 2]

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Someone more experienced than me correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the booties will not just slow you down but make your feet more useful in general (like getting forward drive out of your legs).

It's kind of minor - much like having an engine in a car makes the car go faster. Or like having wings on an airplane help it fly a little bit better

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[bob.dino 0]

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Someone more experienced than me correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the booties will not just slow you down but make your feet more useful in general (like getting forward drive out of your legs).

It's kind of minor - much like having an engine in a car makes the car go faster. Or like having wings on an airplane help it fly a little bit better

[Samurai136 0]

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Someone more experienced than me correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the booties will not just slow you down but make your feet more useful in general (like getting forward drive out of your legs).

It's kind of minor - much like having an engine in a car makes the car go faster. Or like having wings on an airplane help it fly a little bit better

RW suits are like girlfriends. Given some experience in the sport, you will find you need about 3 of them and tight booties are very important.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[rehmwa 2]

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RW suits are like girlfriends. Given some experience in the sport, you will find you need about 3 of them and tight booties are very important.

I'm not supposed to say anything, but you will have 2 suits done probably sometime tonight. They're pretty cool looking.

I now have 2 RW suits (a Tetris and a Skimmer - both have nice tight 'booty'), a full FF suit and FF pants (both Skimmers). I'd like a 'slow' RW suit for some coaching of lightweights, but the mega booties on the others seem to suffice so far with a little work on my part.

I'd count that as 3 suits like you say. The pants don't really count to me as a 'suit'.

But I think I need a bigger locker.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

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RW suits are like girlfriends. Given some experience in the sport, you will find you need about 3 of them and tight booties are very important.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706