Swooping in Lodi?

[rhys 0]

Hi,

Just reading through incidents, I learned a recent swooping incident in Lodi, may have altered the DZO's standpoint on high performance turns there.

Is there a landing area there separate to the main landing area, where it is O.K. to perform high performance landings?

I plan to do a whole heap of jumps there in July with my partner, and would prefer to be able to perform 270' approaches.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Beer 0]

You try contacting the DZ?

Learn to be happy. You can't be there for anybody else in life if you can't learn to be there for yourself.

[rhys 0]

Hi,

I did contact the DZO, and the initial response i recieved was;

Quote

The rule is no low turns. Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated. We have had three incidents in the last couple of months and don't want to take anybody else to the hospital.
Thank you,
Kathy

Which was not quite clear enough, so I asked if I start my turn from above 500 feet and it lasted longer that 5 seconds would that be O.k.?\

they answered;

Quote

No we can't accept turns like that.
Thank you,
Bill Dause

So I guess swooping is all over at lodi?

some have said to me that it could not be, there are too many 'shithot' skydivers there to ban high performance turns, they do $5 hop 'n' pops, swooping is the #1 reason people do hop 'n' pops nowdays.

Has anyone been there recently? is it just a storm in a teacup, or do I go and pay a little more per jump elesewhere for our 300 jump tickets we want to purchase and get to use my JVX for the purpose it was intended for?

any info is appreciated

thanks,

Rhys

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[diablopilot 2]

Bill and Kathy Dause are the owners so I'm betting you can believe what they say.

I have also had first hand reports that the rules you listed are in effect currently.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[monkycndo 0]

I was out there last weekend. No turns over 90 degrees and at least three seconds of straight in flight after completing turn. If you did not head the restrictions, you would be fired. So that meant fun jumpers and employees.

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[AggieDave 6]

I find it interesting when apparent non-swoopers or non-modern swoopers make rules to ban swooping with comments like "Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated."

If I made a high performance turn in excess of 90 degrees under 500ft I would impact the earth in a spectacular manner. That is the same for a large number of swoopers on highly loaded canopies.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[LongWayToFall 0]

What he is saying is that above 500ft, you can do whatever you wish. once below that, you have to keep it 90 degrees or less. The reason he said a time limit is to keep you from saying "I did 3 90 degree turns." I think Bill understands just fine what he specified.

[VectorBoy 0]

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What he is saying is that above 500ft, you can do whatever you wish.

I don't think that is correct. Sounds like this is the definitive answer straight from Bill:


so I asked if I start my turn from above 500 feet and it lasted longer that 5 seconds would that be O.k.?

they answered;

Quote
No we can't accept turns like that.
Thank you,
Bill Dause

We were encouraged not to spiral anywhere above the overall landing area below 2000' last weekend.

You should be able to work on your modern swooper single 90 carves though. But call ahead and make sure so that you don't get fired.

[bodypilot1 0]

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What he is saying is that above 500ft, you can do whatever you wish. once below that, you have to keep it 90 degrees or less. The reason he said a time limit is to keep you from saying "I did 3 90 degree turns." I think Bill understands just fine what he specified.

Your wrong. Anything over a 90 onto final will not be tolerated.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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I find it interesting when apparent non-swoopers or non-modern swoopers make rules to ban swooping with comments like "Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated."

When you have your own drop zone you can make your own rules. Until then, listen to what is said, or jump somewhere else......

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[VectorBoy 0]

I think what Dave is referring to is that description of turn as a swoop and how it gives modern real swoopers a bad name. But then we all know all kinds of people bust them selves up on a canopy from ultra current modern super swoopers to the unskilled under lightly loaded canopies that would turn much lower than Dave ever would. Someone wanted a definition of low turn at Lodi and thats what they got.

Everybody has their threshold. I guess enough is enough for Lodi.

[LongWayToFall 0]

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about high performance landings, and figured that there was no way you could make a swoop from 500 ft.

[AggieDave 6]

Dude, at sea level I'm turning from about 800ft and that's just a 270. There are guys like Marat that are turning in the neighborhood of 1000ft with a long multirotational turn.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dharma1976 0]

funny thing is that according to what he said most of us would actually meet his demands....on a semantic technicality...

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[frost 1]

Quote

Quote

I find it interesting when apparent non-swoopers or non-modern swoopers make rules to ban swooping with comments like "Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated."

When you have your own drop zone you can make your own rules. Until then, listen to what is said, or jump somewhere else......

Yeah, no shit. As much as i dont want to see rules like that, I gotta agree. Bill Dause has his own ideas how things should be done and makes his own rules, always have and always will. He's been in the sport just about longer then anyone here and has how many? 35K+ skydives? oh and he OWNS the place too

[LongWayToFall 0]

Well I wasn't talking about when you initiate the turn, but after you are done turning and coming straight in. If you were turning going through 500ft obviously you would be directly violating the rules. On my boat of a canopy, if there is nobody around, I'm going to spin until my eyes pop out! haha

[rhys 0]

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When you have your own drop zone you can make your own rules. Until then, listen to what is said, or jump somewhere else......

That is exactly what we will do! For me the swoop is a major part of a skydive, $13.50 jump tickets is the only reason we chose Lodi to do our training, now we will choose somewhere else.

I can Imagine we will not be the only people that will decide not to jump there because of this rule.

It is a real shame, I can understand the frustrations of Bill and kathy, but i am sure many will decide not to jump there.

'Almost' all the jumpers I know that have more than 1000 jumps, are making high performance turns for landing. I cvan imagine there are many Lodi locals that are most frustrated with this ruling.

Did they ever try having a separate controlled landing area for swooping?

not in all cases by for the most part when someone hooks themselves in, they have been putting themselves in the corner consistantly prior to the accident, these people should be taken aside or grounded untill they learn to respect what theya are doing.

Swooping need not be scary to watch but all too often it is.

This is a real shame but I am quite happy to pay $5 more per jump elsewher in order to swoop my JVX.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[frost 1]

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I am quite happy to pay $5 more per jump elsewher in order to swoop my JVX.

Hey if you find a DZ that charges 10 bucks for a hop and pop, let me know, ok? ;) Seriously, welcome to 2008. there are no more cheap hop and pops and 18 and even 20 dollar jumps are long gone, a thing of the past never to return. You'll be lucky if you find a place with $15 H&Ps. Hell, i'd be happy to pay 18 to do a hop and pop, but i cant.... at my dz there are no more hop and pops period.

But thats off topic... I do share all your concerns though.

[AggieDave 6]

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Yeah, no shit. As much as i dont want to see rules like that, I gotta agree. Bill Dause has his own ideas how things should be done and makes his own rules, always have and always will. He's been in the sport just about longer then anyone here and has how many? 35K+ skydives? oh and he OWNS the place too Smile So "no swoop forr you!"

I wasn't arguing that it wasn't his right as the owner to make rules of the sort. I'm a big fan of put up, shut up or move on when it comes to DZ's, their rules and politics.

I was simply referring to the verbiage in regards to the swoop ban.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kamalasound 0]

Jump the pond and come over to Italy. In Molinella near bologna we have 12€ hop & pop tickets from the PAC and a swoop pond just in front of the hangar. Swoopers are welcome and have the right to choose the landing. Other skydivers have to choose othher landing areas if swoopers are around!!
Swooping is not a crime and I can assure that we have loads of non skydivers sitting at the bar during weekends and checking out the swoopers.

[raymod2 1]

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Hey if you find a DZ that charges 10 bucks for a hop and pop, let me know, ok?

Sky Knights in East Troy, WI
Skydive Chicago in Ottawa, IL

Both of these dropzones charge $10 for a hop-n-pop.

[frost 1]

thats right, i forgot Chicago. Still 10 bucks, eh? Facility wise it's the best place i've ever been to, and the way they ran last year's USPA Nats was just excellent. I guess if that price holds up this year, SDC should expect a lot more people willing to come for a week to do a bunch of cheap hop and pops. I really hope it stays at $10, but i seriously doubt it's financially viable.

[davelepka 4]

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Sky Knights in East Troy, WI
Skydive Chicago in Ottawa, IL

Both of these dropzones charge $10 for a hop-n-pop.

I'm headed to SDC for a weekend of pond swooping pretty soon, and according to their website hop n pops are $15.

Are you sure it's only $10? I find it hard to believe that they lowered the price by $5, but I hope they did.

I'm going either way,

[raymod2 1]

I haven't jumped at Skydive Chicago yet this season but they were $10 last season. Sky Knights definitely charges $10 (out of the Cessna 182).

[bmason81 0]

Skydive Hawaii $8 dollars upjumper $5 dollars staff, of course spring and summer winds are 20-35mph come out and spend your money here and test you skill in some gnarly conditions, I was recently at lodi and I asked Bill in disbelief "no turns?" he threw my money back on the counter and told me to jump somewhere else if I want to do that, He even fired a couple of people when I was there for turns. Told them to leave and dont come back. SO it is serious, but hey come out to hawaii and jump at the most beautiful dz.

pull low, fly fast, PLF!