how to fly katana?

[skyshimas 0]

I made 5 hnp's today on my friends katana 120. All of the comparisons will be with crossfire2 119.
katana seems to dive more, has less riser preasure and maybe for that reason feels less rigid than the crossfire,openings are tricky and wants to spin you up, but what got me of guard was its swoops. It felt like I was loosing speed very fast and the canopy was so steep and wanted to be on the ground and not surf above it. This really disappointed me because katana suppose to be the closest thing to velo which is my future goal. I don't have that many jumps on crossfire2 119 either only 40 and I downsized from crossfire2 139(300+ jumps) it was an easy transition and I picked up on it rather quick but couldn't make katana go today. What I am asking is an advice from katana pilots on how to make it swoop? because logic says if it dives more it should swoop more as well. And light riser preasure should make it easier to achieve. Thanks for any imput!
BTW my technique is: deep brakes, double fronts, leting one riser up to get it around, and then double fronts again. with harness imput which I start once on double fornts.

[kj126 0]

I also transitioned from the crossfire to katana and to Velo. The Katana is not bad if your looking for serious speed with the toogles and light front riser pressure but definetly tends to drop out before the speed is bled off.
But don't holds it's tendencies against the velo, It will give all the distance your looking for if flown correctly.

I Am Sofa King We Todd Did!!

[AdD 1]

Sure it dives nicely, but remember the steeper you come in the more kinetic energy you will need to sacrifice to plane out. How much input are you using to plane out? Risers or toggles? Maybe a shallower entry to the planeout phase would allow you to get more distance.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[ficus 0]

In my limited experience with the Katana (~50 jumps), it really doesn't want to be pulled out of its dive. If you are a little low and give it a little input to trim it out, it kinda craps out in the way you describe.

I got some pretty good swoops out of it though if I let it do its thing and applied input later in the recovery arc.

Be patient, but not too patient :)

[JohanW 0]

What wingload? What degree of turn? What initiation altitude? What do you consider a decent swoop?

I have a grand total of 5 jumps on a Katana 120 @ 1.8, and I could make it swoop so far I had to carve it away from a parked helicopter I didn't think I'd have a snowball's chance in Hell of reaching. No gates, but call it between 200 and 300 feet (before first touchdown, that is). I (heart) the Ka120.

My technique is slightly different; I used single fronts only, 270 degree turn from 800+ foot up. Not a snap turn, but not a wide carving turn either, just turn it, line up using harness input and let the dive recover on its own. No rear risers, no toggles, let it go.

The frontriser pressure on a Katana is ridiculously light, esp. compared to a Velo, which does empathically not make it the best step up to a Velo, it's way too easy to learn bad habits.

In my experience, in the stories I've heard and from what I've seen, many people try to force their canopy to recover too fast and too hard in the dive. Take it up a little (to a lot, even) higher and allow for more time for it to recover on its own. If it doesn't, you're not ready to go to rear risers and you don't want to go to toggles too much, you might experiment with letting up the frontrisers a little more sharply, this has much the same effect and jumpstarts the recovery some. Or get smaller, pull up your knees, you'll have less body air resistance and will pendulum under the canopy that much faster. All of these have subtle effects and are no replacement for being ready to stab out of the corner fast and early.

All of the above is worth what you paid for it, not recommended for beginners or even advanced fliers if you feel you don't already understand exactly what I'm trying to say, my opinion only (and I'm not the greatest swooper and/or canopy coach myself) and don't try this at home kids.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[deadbug 0]

I have been jumping a Katana 107 at 2.0 for 3 years now and for the most part all of the above posts are spot on. Start high enough to let it mostly recover on it's own. It will require either some light rear riser or light toggle to plane out even it you execute perfectly but try to keep it to a minimum (without leaving a divot). If you find yourself stabbing, not only is it dangerously deep in the corner, but there goes all your speed and distance. The best tool that you have to improve your technique is a video camera on the ground and a good debrief of the footage with the best canopy pilot that you can find that's willing to help. Good luck and have fun.

Doug

[ianmdrennan 2]

Judging from the info in your post, I'd say you're rolling it out too low.

Almost every who starts jumping a KA (or a velo for that matter) from a quicker recovering canopy starts to roll out too low and loses all their energy in having to plane the wing out.

You should do some high pulls and figure out how long you need to spend after a turn recovering before you start losing speed.

Hint: It's going to be longer than you realize

Blues!
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[dharma1976 0]

funnily enough here is a decent example (except for the end where I stopped flying a bit earlier than expected and started running)

http://www.skyjunky.com/media/player.swf

rollout strong and you are applying friction to system...rollout smooth and you will fly further

D

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[superstu 0]

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Hint: It's going to be longer than you realize

that's what your boyfriend told you

in all seriousness though, what ian said is pretty much spot on.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[ianmdrennan 2]

Yep! Nice Swoop D.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Hint: It's going to be longer than you realize

that's what your boyfriend told you

So your Mom finally got that operation eh?

Performance Designs Factory Team

[dharma1976 0]

thanks maybe one of these days I will be able to actually do more than just make the website look crappy for the FLCPA site...

More things to be coming on that soon...

D

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[AggieDave 6]

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Judging from the info in your post, I'd say you're rolling it out too low.

Almost every who starts jumping a KA (or a velo for that matter) from a quicker recovering canopy starts to roll out too low and loses all their energy in having to plane the wing out.

Ding, we have a winner.

I jumped a XF2 149 loaded at 1.9:1 for two years. I then put some jumps on some Katanas, including a KA 150. The KA dives longer and covers a lot more horizontal ground while coming around during the dive. I had to bump up my turn and clean my turn up to get the real performance out of that canopy. Once I did it was blowing out a minimum of 75ft more distance on a swoop. All in all, its a really HOT canopy, you just got to fly it how it wants to be flown, which is not like a XF2 or a Stiletto or anything else for that matter (except similarly to a Velo).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[the_sarge 0]

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It felt like I was loosing speed very fast and the canopy was so steep and wanted to be on the ground and not surf above it.

I just started on a Katana 120, and i'm facing the same issues...

Here's some video http://halfer.dk/swaap2.wmv

Any input on how to get more speed out of the dive??

[AggieDave 6]

Not bad. Why are you turning so fast? I'm not a big fan of "banger" turns. I've had more luck generating a powerful dive by slowing down the first part of my turn, then bringing in the turn steeper as I come around about the 180 degree mark. Then again, I despise the deep toggle and surge method. I've always felt like you spend the first 3/4s of your turn and approach regaining speed you've lost at the beginning by flying in deep brakes. So the entire time you're chasing the speed that you originally had.

I can understand doing that with a canopy that has a heavy front riser like a VX, but with something like the Katana, I'm personally not a fan.

With that said, there are some very top canopy pilots that use the deep brake-surge method.

Have you tried working on cleaning up your harness input and pulling your legs in to help reduce the drag of that super-baggy suit you're wearing?

Go up top and practice and play and practice and play. You'll figure it out. I've been chasing the perfect turn for the last 6 years. Someday I'll figure it out, but if you figure it out first I hope you teach me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dploi 0]

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deep brakes, double fronts, leting one riser up to get it around, and then double fronts again. with harness imput which I start once on double fornts.

I'd say skip the double fronts and try to nail your turn height with just a single, long, speed-building riser turn. In my experience, double-fronts don't build anywhere near the speed of a carving/diving turn on the KA, so aren't really worth the bother. Give it light rears a bit after planing out for extra distance.

[skyshimas 0]

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What wingload? What degree of turn? What initiation altitude? What do you consider a decent swoop?

I loaded it at about 1.7 to 1. I did 180 degree turns which I think I should have started with 90 and bringing it to 180 gradualy but since I had only one day to play I opted for 180 right away which was not the best choice. I did one too low I started at around 560ft but had to bump it up and decided not to risk and brought it to 660ft which was too high or I just didn't know how to fly it right. Once I'll have a chance again I will try my aproach without deep brakes since KA riser preasure is so light. Anyways next day I flew my crossfire and openings were butter I can't appreciate that enough in comparaison to KA.

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[skyshimas 0]

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It felt like I was loosing speed very fast and the canopy was so steep and wanted to be on the ground and not surf above it.

I just started on a Katana 120, and i'm facing the same issues...

Here's some video http://halfer.dk/swaap2.wmv

Any input on how to get more speed out of the dive??

Were you useing deep brakes on this one? video started right before it but it seemed like you did. Next time I'll try not to use them since preasure is so light on Katana.

[the_sarge 0]

Yes... I'm using deep brakes. Not because of riser pressure, but because i find it easier to fly my pattern when slowing down.

I'll try it from full flight this weekend. Thanks for the advice.

[davelepka 4]

Many good answers, but so for everyone has missed the mark.

Here's your problem - you made five jumps on the canopy. It takes more than five jumps to learn high performance flight on any canopy. I'm sorry, but if you want something you can pick up in an afternooon, then high performance canopy flight isn't for you.

Try making 50 jumps, and if you still aren't making any progress, then come back and ask questions.

[dharma1976 0]

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Many good answers, but so for everyone has missed the mark.

Here's your problem - you made five jumps on the canopy. It takes more than five jumps to learn high performance flight on any canopy. I'm sorry, but if you want something you can pick up in an afternooon, then high performance canopy flight isn't for you.

Try making 50 jumps, and if you still aren't making any progress, then come back and ask questions.

and when it gets a bit warmer come find me and do some high pulls with the Katana shimas... if I wasn't sick today would be perfect at the ranch

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[agent_lead 0]

i havnt even really tried any high performance landings with my katana yet other then double fronts..

im gonna start 90's next weekend..

--------------------------------------------
www.facebook.com/agentlead

[Metekanya 0]

I have been jumping a ka 97 loaded at 1.7 for around 250 jumps. First doing 180s. Now I am doing 360s with the first like 50 of these starting deliverately a little bit high (Neptune wave) in order to mentally get used to the loss of altitude and practising different angles of steepnes of the carving turn, which is started with double fronts. On the last 10 landings aprox I have gone down on my starting alt a little so I now plane out with little riser input . According to what all of you are writing I feel that I am doing it allright. But I cannot get more swoop than showed on "the sarge"'s video on a no wind day. Does loading the KA up to 2.0 (progresively of course) make such a big difference? I freefly and do not want to jump full of lead or fly a 70 sqf canopy (my weight out the plane is 167 lb) Should I start considering a Velo 190 (ld 1.85) for more swoop (with patience and demoing first)? I do around 150 jumps a year.

[piisfish 135]

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do not want to jump full of lead or fly a 70 sqf canopy (my weight out the plane is 167 lb) Should I start considering a Velo 190 (ld 1.85) for more swoop (with patience and demoing first)? I do around 150 jumps a year.

1- good thing you don't want to downsize too quick just for the heck of it
2- with 150 jumps a year, assuming they are distributed over the year and not in 1 month, that kind of canopy (katana, Velo etc...) is NOT a canopy for you. That kind of canopy needs at least 2 to 3 times the amount of jumps per year . Might not be what you want to hear, but it's my opinion.Do whatever you want with it.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skyshimas 0]

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Many good answers, but so for everyone has missed the mark.

Here's your problem - you made five jumps on the canopy. It takes more than five jumps to learn high performance flight on any canopy. I'm sorry, but if you want something you can pick up in an afternooon, then high performance canopy flight isn't for you.

Try making 50 jumps, and if you still aren't making any progress, then come back and ask questions.

Develepka no need to kick in the balls here I just tried a new canopy out of curiosity and found it way different than my current wing so I stoped here to see what people can say, so the next time I get a chance to fly it again I know what I should try out not repeating same mistakes over and over again till I get fed up.
TO sarge I am not giving any advice to you bro because I don't know how to fly that thing. That was only a thought on what I am gonna do next time given a chance to fly KA and I like deep brakes for the same reason plus it lightens front risers.

more imputs on techniques used by katana pilots are welcome! share your thoughts on what works best for you! Thanks and again I just shared my limited experience and am seeking for advice nothing more nothing less not trying to judge canopy by making 5 jumps on it.