Altimiter delay

[lilchief 0]

Have anyone noticed difference between a digital and analog altimiter while setting up, causing you to loose you're setup?

I felt that the altimiter I used last weekend was so slow(or inaccurate) that I almost dug my self in. The altimiter said 500, but it didn't match what my eyes said. I ended up doing a low toggle turn to land.. when i looked at it on the ground it said 0' My altitrack got stolen, but I had no problems with setting up with it. Would you say that a digital(neptune, GFX, Altitrack or viso) is better then analog models regarding consistency?

One more thing: the mudflap altimiter mount from Bonhead, does it cover your mudflap, so the embroidery won't show off?

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[Peej 0]

In my opinion digital altimetres are the only instruments to use while swooping. Analog altis are just too innacurate.

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[AggieDave 6]

Firstly, the altimeter is used for your pattern and help you setup. Your eyes are still your "this doesn't look right, so I'm going to bail" device. If you look low or something doesn't look right, then its probably not right and you are low.

Beyond that, digital is really the way to go.

As for the mudflap, who cares. If you're doing over 70mph as you come into your swoop no one is going to notice a cute little embroidery on your rig.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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I felt that the altimiter I used last weekend was so slow(or inaccurate) that I almost dug my self in. The altimiter said 500, but it didn't match what my eyes said.

You're scaring me, dude. Eyes ALWAYS trump the alti... analog, digital, or nuclear, I don't care. In all seriousness, it wasn't the alti being inaccurate that caused to to almost slam in, it was that you made a bad call. (please realize I'm not attacking you, I've made a couple bad call low turns myself... every swooper has).

That said, digitals are definately more consistant. Analogs lag and get stuck, I'd say they're only good for measuring within +/- 100-200 feet. I've found my Optima to be very accurate and consistant.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[superstu 0]

i haven't used an analog alti since i started swooping 4 years ago. i personally think digital is just more accurate. however, use every resource you have. i use my alti to get me to my base leg then i pretty much eye ball it, if i think i'm getting low i'll check my alti and see. i also don't have an audible cause i'm not used to it and the times i have had one it's just distracted me more than it helped. experience also comes into play, people that dont have a lot of experience i might push more towards depending on their alti a little more because those people haven't developed their "swooping eyes" yet, but even with the most experienced they can still be caught off guard. so use everything, depend on nothing.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[Fast 0]

Like everyone else has said. Trust your eyes. If it looks low, it is.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[frost 1]

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Trust your eyes. If it looks low, it is.

See, i think the problem is not "when it looks low, it is low". The problem is when it IS low but it doesnt look like that to the pilot (or he thinks he can still make it). A few hundred jumps just isnt enough in most cases to recognize that sight picture. Sometimes a thousand or more is not enough...

Please, use BOTH visual AND audible DIGITAL devices for your swoops. They are so cheap compared to the mistakes they can help you avoid.

I personally think that two very simple things combined can prevent the injuries and fatalities resulting from low turns:
1. A set of TWO digital altimeters: a visual AND an audible.
2. Personal discipline on this simple rule: "If it beeps and i am still too far from my turn point, i will not execute the big turn".

[lilchief 0]

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As for the mudflap, who cares. If you're doing over 70mph as you come into your swoop no one is going to notice a cute little embroidery on your rig.

haha

Thanks guys! I got was I was after. I allways check the visual, and that has helped me a lot. It's just spooky when the alti says 500' and I go: "..umm..hell NO!"

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[diablopilot 2]

Quit hooking based on your altimeter. Use your eyes, it'll save your and someone else's life someday.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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Quit hooking based on your altimeter. Use your eyes, it'll save your and someone else's life someday.

Actually, use both. Have a sufficient number of skydives to rate jumping an HP canopy, get some damn training, and also use the MOST reliable digital altimeter you can to assist you in working out your setup altitude. It's the combination of all these things that will prevent you from destroying your body in front of 100 spectators. Seriously

Chuck

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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In my opinion digital altimetres are the only instruments to use while swooping. Analog altis are just too innacurate.

IMNSHO, if you're not trying to win competitions which requires planing out in the power band you should be using an interactive carving approach where being 100' off just doesn't matter (being obviously high means slowing the turn with opposite front riser;somewhat low means transitioning to harness input; really low finishes with both toggles)

I got 48 MPH out of a mellow 90 degree carving approach under my Stiletto 120 @ 1.6 pounds/square foot; greater turn angles and higher wing-loadings should get you more than enough speed for recreational purposes. Lacking regular access to a RADAR gun I lack hard numbers to satisfy my curiosity there.

[superstu 0]

In my limited experience i've found that the lower you need to start the more accurate your altimeter should be. say you need to be at 350' to have a good 90 on a certain wing, if you have a crap altimeter that reads 100' low then you could very well be in a world of hurt. however, on the opposite side of the spectrum for someone doing a 450 on a certain wing that ideally needs to start at 1000' they can be 200' high or low and they'll still have a decent swoop because they can assess how fast or how slow they want to descend because they have more time in the turn. BUT, for competitive swoopers most of them want to be within a certain altitude because they've found that altitude to be best for them and they need an accurate altimeter to help put them there.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[NewClearSports 0]

Thanks guys! I got was I was after. I allways check the visual, and that has helped me a lot. It's just spooky when the alti says 500' and I go: "..umm..hell NO!"

I learned something this year about regular dial altimeters. I got mine wet, and it worked ok for that weekend, then the following weekend it started to read inaccurate. I landed and it still read about 1500 ft. It would climb fairly accuratly but it was way off in freefall. (I wear 2 audibles)

Anyway I took mine apart and got to see how it works....
Basicly it is a steel diaphram that pushes against an arm that is conected to a little gear-set that moves the needle relativly. When you go up in the plane the diaphram expands and moves the needle to give you the altitude, however when you are in freefall coming down it is a small amount of spring tension countering the diaphram that moves the needle back down. SO - you are much more likely to experience a problem with your alti on the decent as there is no direct link between the diaphram and the needle, it is dependent on the spring pressure to keep the lever tight against the diaphram (The true altitude detecting part of an altimeter)
The fix for my alti was a couple drops of penitrating oil on the pivots, gear-sets, and coil spring - and letting if fully dry out. It now works great again.
I was glad mine was SO FAR off, because I knew for sure it wasn't working, however my audibles (One of which has swoop beeps) confirmed this well before getting to my final leg.
I tend to think we could all use a back-up alti of some sort, since this is a fairly important bit of data we need doing what we do!

Just sharing what I learnt this summer.
Blue skies
Mike

[Peej 0]

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In my opinion digital altimetres are the only instruments to use while swooping. Analog altis are just too innacurate.

IMNSHO, if you're not trying to win competitions

I try to treat every one of my landings as "competition" whether it's after a work jump, fun jump, or a H&P. We have a set of gates permanently in our pro area at my home dz and i try to hit those on every landing.

I really like Stu's approach and answer in the post below yours, on my canopy i have a little bit of give on either side of my turn altitude. I can turn higher and still get her down and if i see i am lower i know i can still go but might have to bail to the toggles earlier or abort altogether. It's nice to know that my digi alti is an accurate device to compliment what my eyes are telling me.

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[larakiyomi 0]

Just in case this is an Alti-2 you're talking about, you may want to check this out - http://www.alti-2.com/customer%20support/faq.htm#How_can_I_repair_my_mechanical_Altimaster_myself_Should_I_oil_the_mechanism_routinely. Even if it's not, just about every alti manufacturer I know of has excellent customer service and would be happy to fix it. Sorry for the thread drift

Blue Skies Mag