Where do you usually abort your high speed landing approach?

[phoenixlpr 0]

Where do you usually abort your high speed landing approach if you see that your are way to low?
Traffic is not an issue here.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Before I reach my Initiation Point.

ie: Before I make my turn to final. If I don't have the altitude I simply do a 90 degree turn onto final and land 'normally'

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[phoenixlpr 0]

Sorry, I was thinking about that option too. I could not put it there afterwards.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Added it to the poll

Performance Designs Factory Team

[frost 1]

same here. You'll know (SHOULD know) when you are TOO low for even a quick 270 (450, 540, etc.) and will abort before you even start the low turn.

also same actions for traffic. Abort before you start.

[Spizzzarko 0]

When ever I feel I need to.

[fueler 0]

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Where do you usually abort your high speed landing approach if you see that your are way to low?
Traffic is not an issue here.

sometime before smashing into the ground. If you smash in and then try to correct it....you were too late.

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what!?

[hparrish 0]

The last time I did a 270 I aborted when I hit the water

Normally though it was before the initiation.

[diablopilot 2]

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When ever I feel I need to.

Bingo.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Peej 0]

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When ever I feel I need to.

Bingo.

Thirded

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[ianmdrennan 2]

It's the obvious answer, sure. However, given the no traffic criteria the 'whenever I need to' answers beg the question "How late is the pilot leaving the decision process?"

Personally, I believe in identifying the issue BEFORE the turn is made. Not saying the other responses are incorrect by any means - doing whatever it takes not to pound in is the obvious answer. Just questioning the decision making process......

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Peej 0]

I hear you. And in truth i actually didn't see the "no traffic" consideration, because obviously then i would abort without ever doing the turn.

However are you saying that if your altitude wasn't exactly right you'd abort rather than say turning faster if you were "slightly" lower than your normal initiation altitude or doing a slower, more carving turn if you were slightly higher? Not arguing, just asking
I find that i have a "whoah that's too low to go" altitude but seem to allow for an OK, i know this is getting a little low so i know i have to turn faster here type turn.

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[ianmdrennan 2]

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However are you saying that if your altitude wasn't exactly right you'd abort rather than say turning faster if you were "slightly" lower than your normal initiation altitude or doing a slower, more carving turn if you were slightly higher? Not arguing, just asking

Not at all. I have a range of altitudes that I'll turn within. The altitude will depend on the type of turn I'm doing (slow, slow - fast, fast, or abort). Because each canopy has a 'window' these altitude windows will obviously change according to size, type, turn speed/type and loading. Do the appropriate turn for the altitude.

If the pilot has spent enough time focusing on setup and pattern they should be able to place themselves within their window - sometimes on the high side, sometimes on the low side of their initiation point (note: Not rollout) - to perform their turn safely.

I try and visualize the ideal glide slope through the target with the ideal rollout and then turn to intersect that path with my current path, smoothly.

I guess what I'm saying is that if for some reason the pilot isn't going to make the 'window' for their canopy, I believe they should have recognized that way before they actually get to their initiation point.

Of course, everyone makes mistakes and misjudgements so sometimes we find ourselves digging or skipping off the water even if we started with plenty of altitude for the turn. Those in of themselves aren't necessarily an indication that the turn was done too low, but rather that the inappropriate turn speed was used.

Basically, there's a crapload of ways you can screw yourself

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[bob.dino 1]

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Where do you usually abort your high speed landing approach

As soon as I realise something is wrong.


Wrong can be that "uh-oh, I don't like this picture" feeling in the pit of your stomach. Or it can be the "damn, I misjudged the conditions and screwed the pooch on the pattern". Or even "bugger, that student is flying too close to my airspace for comfort."

[hparrish 0]

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However are you saying that if your altitude wasn't exactly right you'd abort rather than say turning faster if you were "slightly" lower than your normal initiation altitude or doing a slower, more carving turn if you were slightly higher? Not arguing, just asking

I'd be careful with taking this attitude unless you reaaly have your shit together. This whole idea of "I'm too low" so "I'll just make my turn Faster", is a bad idea. It is why I have not jumped since August and why I had two ligaments in my knee replaced.

If you're too low abort. You should know if you're too low before you start your turn. I knew I was too low and did it anyway. Now I'm watching from the sidelines.

[za_skydiver 0]

I am in the begin stages of swooping, and i have been doing 90s after about the 4th of 5th jump of the weekend. And i gotta say, that sometimes when i get 45 ot 60 degrees i will stop the turn and just land in the direction im going, What im saying is that i will rather bail out high, than thinking "fuck i'm low" and bury my brakes hoping to not smack the ground. Funny enough, some of the times i have stopped the turn, has resulted in some really nice swoops.

Some dream of flying, i live the dream...

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Funny enough, some of the times i have stopped the turn, has resulted in some really nice swoops.

There is a very good chance that this is because the canopy is allowed to fly through it's natural recovery arc and maybe you're not starting your 90s high enough. Have you done your performance drills up high? Do you know how much altitude your canopy loses and are you also allocating enough altitude to let the canopy recover by itself? Is your turn rate constant or does it vary from jump to jump?

Back to the topic of this thread: I abort my swoops a split second before I am poised to take Kallend out of the sky? LOL ... do NOT take this last statement serious.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[za_skydiver 0]

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There is a very good chance that this is because the canopy is allowed to fly through it's natural recovery arc and maybe you're not starting your 90s high enough.

This is what happened in the beginning. But i did realize it early enough to stop it.

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Have you done your performance drills up high? Do you know how much altitude your canopy loses and are you also allocating enough altitude to let the canopy recover by itself?

Yes. But the answer above is based on the fact that my drills in the beginning where done with a analogue alti. I have a VISO now.

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Is your turn rate constant or does it vary from jump to jump?

I try to keep it as consistent as possible.


Finally i would just like to add that in (my very little) experience i have had in swooping. No matter how consistent you try and keep things, there are almost always outside variables that you have no, or very little, control over that can drastically change the outcome of your planned approach. And the skill in swooping/landing comes from recognizing them as/before they happen and adapting to them.

Edit to add: Sorry if this is side tracking the thread a bit, i just felt that i does somehow relate a bit.

Some dream of flying, i live the dream...

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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No matter how consistent you try and keep things, there are almost always outside variables that you have no, or very little, control over that can drastically change the outcome of your planned approach.

Agreed ... before I sought out some advanced swoop coaching from one of the industry leaders, I used to think that we always had to setup at the same altitude in the same part of the sky on each and every jump. But then I was taught that each jump was different, I was shown how to conduction my performance drills in order to find my performance envelope, I was taught that slow turns burn up more altitude than fast ones and I was armed with a whole slew of tools to pull out of my tool box as to what kind of inputs were needed on a given jump. Oh and once the turn starts ... hopefully the swoopers spider senses will kick in as from that point on it is all visual and it's our spider senses which tells us when to get off of the front risers and when to stop the turn. Yes swooping is a very dynamic thing ... every jump is different ... and this is one of the major attractions I have to the discipline (aside from the ground rush).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Peej 0]

Sweet, thanks dude

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[phoenixlpr 0]

Thanks a lot for you oppinions!

I see it clear, that aborting under 180 degree is easy landing can be according the pattern.

How about aborting a so called "left"(right turns only) 270 approach? Is there any phase when you are moving against other with std. pattern?