Katana or Crossfire 2

[mac2501 0]

ok couple of questons for you experianced swoopers
im currently jumping a stilletto 150 i have just over 1000 jumps and i weigh 17 stone (115kg) and im happy with my landings ,
1.any idea what im wingloading the stilletto at ?
2. Katana 120 or Crossfire 2 119 ?

not sure what to get for my next canopy
many thanks

[dragon2 0]

1. ~1.8
2. you'd be overloading them both at ~2.3

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Sabre1Lucke 0]

115 kg, is that your exit weight?
If so then your wingload on the Stiletto 150 will be 1.69 lbs/sqft

If it's not your exit weight then you have to add 10kg to it. 115kg + 10kg = 125kg --> Wingload 1.84 lbs/sqft.

For the 119 sqft your wingload will be 2.13 lbs/sqft or in the case that it was not your exit weight 2.32 lbs/sqft.

In both cases this will be to much.

[JumpRu 14]

try KA 135.

[AggieDave 6]

Try a KA 135 or the XF2 139. At 2.3:1 neither of those canopies will fly very well. I've flown both loaded at 1.9:1 and they fly GREAT, I've also flown both at 2.1:1 and they flew like crap.

Beyond that, if you have the ability to demo, demo and try them out. If not, I'd buy a KA if I had to do it over again (and the KA 150 had been released when I was buying a 150). I wrote a lenthy review of the larger KAs when they first came out. Obviously its my opinion, but do a search and you'll find it if you're curious. I compared the KA to the XF2, the Mamba and I think the Vengence if I remember correctly.

The KA outflew the XF2 in many ways, the Mamba didn't even come close in terms of performance or openings. Actually, I personally thought the Mamba flew fairly poorly.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jdfreefly 1]

In an effort to appease Chuck and stop lurking...

8 years in the sport and 1000 jumps, I'll let you make your own decisions about wing loading, although, I find it a little distressing that you don't know yourself....you should. However, for the record, I have had great landings under a crossfire2 loaded at just over 2.0. Same with the katana I demoed.

My opinion of the Katana is this: It has a very similar glide path to the velocity, but it has less flare, due to the less rigid wing (no crossbracing). It is just as dangerous as a velocity, just as responsive, just as ground hungry. If you think you are not ready for a velocity, you're probably not ready for a katana either.

The crossfire2 is less ground hungry than either the velocity or the katana, but it still has a much longer recovery arc than the stilletto. I think it is a perfect canopy for someone looking to go to higher performance level, but isn't willing to make the jump to something with as steep a recovery arc as the katana or velocity.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[AggieDave 6]

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I think it is a perfect canopy for someone looking to go to higher performance level, but isn't willing to make the jump to something with as steep a recovery arc as the katana or velocity.

The XF2 is still a competitive canopy, though and its still very high performance.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[justchrisdsp 0]

let me please add my praise for the mamba. if you are looking for a high performance canopy in the larger sizes then that is the one i would go with, i have had a 150 an now i have a 132 loaded at around 2:1. very good canopy, lots of flare, great swoops. demo the canopy if you get the chance, it will make you want to buy one right there. just my opinion

The only bad skydive is your last!
chris "sonic wookie" harwell
Piedra-belluda-roja Rodriguez

[dharma1976 0]

I love my crossfire...

I can swoop the pond on it...carve like holy high hell on it(canopy sideways turning big by the ground)...do a shitload of distance on it and yet it opens soooooooo sweet

if you like slower on heading openings that is...which I do as swifter openings will lead to a bad back....

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[genitor 0]

The Crossfire absolutely has the Katana's openings beat. I would say about 80% of the openings on my Katana are awesome (soft, on heading, etc). The other 20% are all over the place, and sometimes scary as hell. I never found a way to make my Crossfire misbehave on opening.

Once it's open, I do like the Katana better. It's definitely more ground hungry, likes to dive more, and has lighter front riser pressure, etc.

[chopchop 0]

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let me please add my praise for the mamba. if you are looking for a high performance canopy in the larger sizes then that is the one i would go with, i have had a 150 an now i have a 132 loaded at around 2:1. very good canopy, lots of flare, great swoops. demo the canopy if you get the chance, it will make you want to buy one right there. just my opinion

I agree.. about 200 jumps on Mamba 132s and I'm hooked. Nice openings, very responsive and great swoops! Try a mamba and see what you think.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[rmcvey 0]

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The other 20% are all over the place, and sometimes scary as hell. I never found a way to make my Crossfire misbehave on opening.

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Have you got the HMA lines yet just out of curiousity?

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[Pendragon 1]

There are enough experienced swoopers up at SIbson for you to get a more tailored response than that available on the forums (unless of course you didn't get the answer you wanted )

WL c. 1.9 is perfect for Katana, Xfire2 and Mamba, so your sizing should be 135 for get the most from these canopies.

Xfire2 has nice openings, is probably least sensitive to harness input in half brakes (so won't feel so unstable when seated just after deployment) and would be considered "lower" performance than the other 2... but has a longer recovery arc than the Stilletto and is a fun canopy to fly.

Your choice in the end - subject to the CCI letting you jump the canopy - but I would not go for anything that scares you as you'll stop enjoying it.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[br0k3n 0]

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My opinion of the Katana is this: It has a very similar glide path to the velocity, but it has less flare, due to the less rigid wing (no crossbracing). It is just as dangerous as a velocity, just as responsive, just as ground hungry. If you think you are not ready for a velocity, you're probably not ready for a katana either.

Ok so I've just ordered a KA97, should I have just gone straight for a Velo instead?

I was thinking about this recently, according to those who know and have flown both, the difference is minimal; several people at my DZ flew KA’s before moving to Velo’s and said they were surprised how similar the two were?

So for someone who is going to but a KA, why would they not buy a Velo instead?

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[AggieDave 6]

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So for someone who is going to but a KA, why would they not buy a Velo instead?

Size availability.

Only in the past year have I progressed to the point of being able to be able to be on a 120 or smaller canopy. Thus I've jumped the Velo 111, 120 and a VX 114...the last two quite a bit. Previous to this I was very limited in my choices for canopies due to my size and weight (wingloadings). If the KA 150 had been availabe nearly 3 years ago when they were announced, I would have bought one of them. If the KA 135 had been available a year ago I would have bought one on my way to going smaller and Xbraced. They weren't available so I spent another year on my XF149 and have moved passed the KA for what I want in a canopy.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ntacfreefly 0]

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Ok so I've just ordered a KA97, should I have just gone straight for a Velo instead?

Not necessarily. IMO there are multiple factors to consider - size/wingloading and price being some of the major factors (but not limited to).

For example, there's little point in buying a velo and loading it at 1.8, but that's an area the KA is going to shine in. As the pilots loadings get more and more aggressive then a velo would make more sense.

Of course there are pilots who load KA's extremely high (Vladi) and love them that way.

I found the KA a boatload of fun to fly at 1.9 (KA 107), a velocity of similar size felt like a dog (103 Velo) at that loading and I'd pick the KA over it any day of the week. On the flip side I far preferred the Velo 90 as opposed to the KA 89.

It's not cut and dry, sure, but I hope it helps somewhat.

edit: I looked at your profile and loading of the ST 107. Based on that and the KA size you mentioned, I believe you made the right choice in a KA.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[Sabre1Lucke 0]

I was also considering to buy a Katana.
It would have been a 107 sqft winload 1.89.

But then I did some demo-jumps on a demon 100 sqft wingload 2.1.
I decided to buy the Demon because of the price and after +/- 100 jumps I installed the competition line-set on it.
Now my canopy rocks!!!
It's much faster, it dives more and it's great on back-riser.
I also jumped a katana 107 and if I compaire both canopies; the Katana with the Demon competition, I can tell you this (with my limited experience)

Frontriserpressure: You will not believe this but the pressure on the Demon is less then on the Katana.

Openings: openings of both canopies are great. But I also have to say that I prefer the Katana-openings which are soft and more slowly.

Bottom-end-flair: There is more power in the Katana then in the Demon competition but the flair in the Demon is more then enough. For carving this is and advantage for the Katana.

Dive an recovery arc: The dive and recovery-arc on the Demon competition is longer then on the Katana.
I start my 270° with the Demon competition at 680 -700 ft. With the Katana this was more around the 600-650 ft.

Anyway, I like my Demon competition very much.
Wingload on my Demon competition: 2.1
I jump it with 23" risers.
I really believe this is a great canopy.

[url]Check out how Brain Vacher swoops that canopy :o)
http://www.safeflightschool.com/?page=downloads&lang=en

Lazyboy Ghostrider, Demon test canopy from Performance Variable [mov]
Blonde man with the Demon test canopy from Performance Variable [mov]
Blindman with the Demon test canopy from Performance Variable [mov]

[cpoxon 0]

Luc, are your jump numbers and time in the sport, listed in your profile, accurate?

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[iGGy 0]

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For example, there's little point in buying a velo and loading it at 1.8,...

If you ignore price, would you still hold this to be true? If so, why?

[ntacfreefly 0]

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If you ignore price, would you still hold this to be true? If so, why?

Well, it's definitely a matter of opinion so I can only speak for myself.

I don't feel that there's any loss in flying a xbraced at that loading by any means but the tradeoffs are that it feels sluggish and isn't nearly as much fun to fly (my opinion). That combined with the performance increase being relatively minor, I found the KA a far more enjoyable wing at lighter loadings.

Besides that, the issue is far more of a price one where the benefits dont outweigh the costs (but I know you asked outside of price consideration).

Besides price, there isn't really a huge difference either way IMO. Just preference.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer