Setup for 450

[selwynj 0]

Can some of the more expierienced canopy pilots please post how to setup for 450 turns; 530 turns etc. Where should the gates be in relation to your setup? Also what type of turn ie: leg strap, front risers, both.

“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA

[phoenixlpr 0]

Can you tell me, why do you need more than 360 rotation?

[jurgencamps 0]

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Can you tell me, why do you need more than 360 rotation?

More speed.

[FreeFlyFridge 0]

Why more speed?
You don´t need more speed unless you are perfectly accurate, do you?

Trading accuracy for speed is a bad choice in my opinion!

At about 800 Jumps already wrung everything out of his Xaos27 108 and maxed it out at every other rotation and accuracy??

I do not know him but I don´t think so!

But then...maybe i´m wrong!

------------------------------------------------------
ROCK ON,.....HARD!
Proud European!!

[phoenixlpr 0]

You should be able reach maximum speed even from 270 degrees. It is not only the rotation but also the time you use for that.

If I understood right The Parachute and its Pilot
by Brian Germain.

[jurgencamps 0]

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You should be able reach maximum speed even from 270 degrees. It is not only the rotation but also the time you use for that.

If I understood right The Parachute and its Pilot
by Brian Germain.

That's why topswoopers do 450's, 630's, 1080's ...

But of course, it is very important to master the steps before these (flat turns, straight landings, 90's ...)

[jurgencamps 0]

Please take an advanced canopy course.

[Peej 0]

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Please take an advanced canopy course.

We're in South Africa bro, unfortunately we don't have access to the world's top pilots and canopy courses like you guys in the US do. The forums here are a source of much info for us.

Selwyn, you might also want to take your question over to www.canopypiloting.com and ask Jim Slaton there.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[dragon2 0]

Hmm Jurgen is not American bro

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Peej 0]

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Hmm Jurgen is not American bro

Whoops, that'll teach me to reply without checking profiles! My point still stands though... bro we've had Brian Germain visit us once here but we just don't have the kind of pilots that peeps in the US and Europe have access too.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[breadhead 0]

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take your question over to www.canopypiloting.com and ask Jim Slaton there.

It's there already:
http://canopypiloting.tempwebpage.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=5040;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

[audwiz 0]

Bit OT-BUT !

Hey dude-don't you think you should keep your canopy connected to your harness first ? !!!! LOL-Pretty little blue canopy you were flying the other day ain't "really" swoopable

<<<< >>>>

[raymod2 1]

There were a lot of people doing 450s at the CPC Championships this year. But the best distance scores (John Zuliani, Tom Delibac) were from 270s. They got 561 feet and 563 feet in the first distance round.

[selwynj 0]

Thanks. I will continue this there.

“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

To the people that thought it prudent to post nonsense answers to this very specific question in this topical forum: STOP IT! Keep the noise in Bonfire!

Chuck

[skydivexxl 0]

It's always helpful to have someone respond with "I heard" or "I read this in a book."

Blog Clicky

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I read Jim's theory on the 450 in his forum and, he's definitely right about one thing: there are a bunch of ways to skin that cat. I used to mainly throw 270's, but have been doing 360's almost exclusively for some time now. I worked on "inside 450's" for a while, though, and like Jim said over on his site, I initiated them from 1000 feet.

The first person to do them with any regularity was Jay Moledzski. We were talking about them one day at Deland a couple of years ago after, as a tangent to, a talk we were having about the Phi wingsuit. "Phi", while a letter of the greek alphabet, is also a number: 1.618 0339 887. In terms of diving turns to landing, how that applied (in Jay's mind anyway, at least the way I understood him), was that he wanted to throw perfect, ever-tightening spiral turns that would spit him out at the maximum achievable velocity. What makes a toilet flush is that they are designed so that the water spins in that ever-tightening arc till it jams itself down the drain. That degree of tightening arc is the ratio Phi.

Anyway, the intent of that particular turn is to start out with a wider, slowly-building dive that, on the last half rotation is really tight and diving (almost totally on harness at that point).

I don't have any problem with accuracy starting out that turn in deep brakes. I also never get into double fronts, unlike Jim, when doing that turn. Just like every other degree of turn you might work on, the key is repetition. Work on the setup and initiation/follow-through on high hop and pops, then average out your altitude lost on each iteration. The average of your last three attempts as your are descending will give you a pretty accurate initiation altitude for your actual landing, leaving you a bit of a buffer zone. Better too high than too low. Those altitude-loss averages from your higher practices will be greater because of the thinner air at altitude.

If you want to be accurate, then every practice attempt needs to take the same amount of time to complete. For me, that's four seconds. Four seconds for a 270, four seconds for a 360, and four seconds for that 450. What changes for me is setup altitude and distance back from the gates. Jim talks about his specific distances on his site, but if your turn is not exactly like his, then that's only going to give you a vague baseline. If YOU want to build accuracy skills, then YOU need to put out some gates, some semblance of a straight course (to start with) and put some markers on the ground at about 50 foot intervals back from the gates that you can easilly view from setup altitude. Ultimately, you want as many visual cues as possible for your training.

Use every resource available to you. There are a staggering amount of super-proficient pilots around these days. Ask the right questions of the right people. There are no "Svengali's of Swoop" that are unapproachable.

Chuck Blue

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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was that he wanted to throw perfect, ever-tightening spiral turns that would spit him out at the maximum achievable velocity. What makes a toilet flush is that they are designed so that the water spins in that ever-tightening arc till it jams itself down the drain.

I've been wanting to get into 450s for a while now, but just haven't felt that this season was the right time. But I like this analogy. It makes total sense for why you would want to do the big turn. There's work to be done ... less talking and more training.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[marks 0]

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was that he wanted to throw perfect, ever-tightening spiral turns that would spit him out at the maximum achievable velocity. What makes a toilet flush is that they are designed so that the water spins in that ever-tightening arc till it jams itself down the drain.

I've been wanting to get into 450s for a while now, but just haven't felt that this season was the right time. But I like this analogy. It makes total sense for why you would want to do the big turn. There's work to be done ... less talking and more training.

me also, but I do 300 jumps a year, and there is no reason to go above 270's with that currency.

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[CanuckInUSA 0]

Yes currency can be an issue. I'm reasonably current at the moment. But talk to me in a few months.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ntacfreefly 0]

Steve,

While I believe you could do 450's safely I believe you have a lot more to learn on your 270 first. 450's aren't going to fix any problems with existing turns (they'll probably make them worse) so they aren't worth doing until you're nailing the 270's with power, and accuracy, consistently IMO.

Good 270's blow away average 450's every time.

Yes, I am working on the bigger turns myself, but I am unable to consistantly and powerfully deliver them through the gates. So, until I can, I'm staying on 270's for comps. I still manage to do just fine on them (when I'm not flying like a tool )

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Let's also not forget that I'm only 25 or so jumps into jumping Mark's old 87 and that canopy is currently plenty fast enough with me just doing my good ole 270s. I tell you guys that I want to be doing 450s but I'll be still doing 270s while I'm learning the 87. Plus my inevitable lack of currency a few months from now will not help.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over