SkymonkeyONE 3 #51 August 3, 2006 Quotethus addressing raymod2's concerns about people gaming the system by hugging the side of the swoop lane nearest to the camera. the smart guys always chose the straightest distance through the carving speed course. That said, the actual course distance is always measured straight down the centerline of the course. The markers are setup on direct azimuths outside and inside that line. If a competitor wanted to hug the inside line on a straight course I would not care at all; it's all technique. If he thought he could get away with it without getting marker strikes, then good for him. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #52 August 3, 2006 Quotethe smart guys always chose the shortest distance through the carving speed course. shorter is not always faster. straight, in this case, is.did you mean the straightest route chuck? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #53 August 3, 2006 QuoteThe course change has to do with the length of time it takes to set up a carve course Vs a straight course. simple. A carving course can be set up very quickly (10 minutes or so) with three people, a 300' tape measure, and a 50' tape measure. First you need to do a little bit of math. Start by choosing values for the following: a = angle of the speed course s = length of the speed course n = number of gates w = width of the gates Now compute the following: 180 * s w x = -------- + --- pi * a 2 [ a ] y = 2 * x * sin [ ----------- ] [ 2 * (n - 1) ] For example, these are the values we used this year in the Illinois CPC district: a = 60 degrees s = 180 feet n = 6 w = 24 feet x = 183.9 feet y = 38.45 feet Now define the camera position as point A, the outside of the entry gate as point B, and the outside of the next gate as point C. Start by marking points A and B which must be x feet apart. Now one person holds the end of the 300' tape measure at point A while another person holds the end of the 50' tape measure at point B. The third person, while keeping both tape measures taut, measures x feet from point A and y feet from point B to mark point C. Repeat this process until the outside of every gate is marked. Now go back and mark the inside of every gate. Hold a tape measure taut between the camera point and the outside gate. Measure w feet from the outside gate in the direction of the camera point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #54 August 3, 2006 QuoteQuotethe smart guys always chose the shortest distance through the carving speed course. shorter is not always faster. straight, in this case, is.did you mean the straightest route chuck? that's exactly what I meant, Mark. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #55 August 3, 2006 Not towards you chuck, your just last in the list. Welcome to the world of Jim Slaton all of you newbies to the CPC. He is good at changing things up all of a sudden without notice. Some like it, it keeps you on your toes, some hate it. The speed in a straight line will be while dragging water, this for the CPC is imo a BAD IDEA. To require cpc competators to try and swoop as fast as they can while dragging water is all out dangerous. The same man that came up with this idea also came up with the 10ft gates for CPC, what an oxymoron! While a lot of the top cpc people will rock at this there are a lot of people that hardly have ever swooped water. Good luck to all of you and stay safe. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #56 August 3, 2006 QuoteGood luck to all of you and stay safe. yes, good luck. and stay safe... swooping is fun, live "or dont get hurt", to do it again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CurrentTV 0 #57 August 3, 2006 I have talked with Jim this week and I think there was some confusion on this forum. The pilots of the CPC will not drag water through the speed course at the 2006 CPC Championships. At the recent PST event (2006 Swoop Festival) there was the "Ultimate Speed" event which challenged competitors to a straight speed course while dragging water but this will not be the same for the CPC Championships. The CPC Championships will have a normal, straight speed course. There has always been three choices to the organizer. The left carving course, the right carving course and the straight speed course. Which one is used during competition is up to the organizer. In fact, previous swoop competitions including the IPC canopy Piloting events have had speed rounds in every direction including straight! Someone told me a long time ago that you have to have thick skin to be in this game and Jim has really thick skin. Look how much exposure you guys are giving to the CPC/PST! Remember, there is no such thing as bad Plublicity. Jim won't give you guys the time of day as long as you keep talking all the bull. You think he is losing sleep over the whole thing? If you don't like the rules then its simple, just don't show up. This is what you have missed this year so far... $20,000 cash purse PST Canopy Cup $5,000 cash purse PST Florida Pro/Am $5,000 cash purse PST Air Festival $5,000 cash purse CPC Championships Local, National & Global TV coverage of the Pro Swooping Tour. P.S. You might also want to read the rules at www.canopypiloting.com/cpcrules.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #58 August 3, 2006 QuoteLook how much exposure you guys are giving to the CPC/PST! just show up kids, there is a place for everyone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #59 August 4, 2006 Quoteas far as changing the course from carved to straight, they probably did this for safety reason as a lot of pilots got fucked up on this event last year. plus it makes course changes easier too. People got fucked up on the event because they assumed it was to have 5 foot blades on the inside of the turn where as the rules always stated 10 footers and a bunch of yahoos never learned how to properly fly that course. Quotetell you what, you start organizing competitions on a national level then start talking shit. Why should he? There have been plenty of competitions before the CPC and there are plenty that hapen other than the CPC.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #60 August 4, 2006 QuoteTeam Chaos, in various forms, has been at both the meets I attended. TJ, Jeffo, Luke Aikens. It's Xaos. Like the canopy. TX flies Icarus products. QuoteIcarus is no more You talk to the boys in San Diego about that?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #61 August 4, 2006 QuoteQuote On behalf of Jim, Thanks for taking part in the Canopy Piloting Pyramid Scam. Why dont you just keep your head in your ass and leave the discussion for the adults. The course change has to do with the length of time it takes to set up a carve course Vs a straight course. simple. You know, you just showed your ass right there. Fuck any respect I had for you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ntacfreefly 0 #62 August 4, 2006 QuoteIt's Xaos. Like the canopy. Dude. I can't believe I made that type o. DOH! As for TJ I know he flies ICARUS now but in the timeframe I was responding to, he was on XAOS (see I can spell it right LOL) QuoteYou talk to the boys in San Diego about that? My reference was to Team Extreme. Now come on, I know you didn't miss the point of my post. It didn't really have much to do with Team Extreme, Chaos (I'm kidding!) or TJ To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyedivr 0 #63 August 4, 2006 QuoteThere has always been three choices to the organizer. The left carving course, the right carving course and the straight speed course. Which one is used during competition is up to the organizer. P.S. You might also want to read the rules at www.canopypiloting.com/cpcrules.htm Nice post.my power is beyond your understanding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites proswooper 2 #64 August 4, 2006 I apologise if i upset you or your friend but i dont appreciate comments about my friends like that. if anyone thinks jim is getting rich off of this thing then all you have to do is look at the shack he lives in and the piece of shit he drives. I have utmost respect for him because he benefits very little from the amount of work that he does to organise all of these events. All the prize monies come from the dropzones that host the events. my original although somewhat distorted point was that The reason he went to straight speed, as told to me anyways, was to facilitate much quicker course changes. ie speed to accuracy to distance. all the same course markers can be used and it takes less time. I wondered the same thing and that is the answer i got. Now if you still have a problem with what i am saying then look me up at the next swoop meet and i will be happy to discuss it over tea and crumpetts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #65 August 4, 2006 Real estate in longmont is not that cheap. I'm going to go back being the asshole that everyone thinks I am now. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #66 August 4, 2006 Quotei will be happy to discuss it over tea and crumpetts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #67 August 4, 2006 If CurrentTV is an additional logon for Jim Slaton, inc, then I am going to delete it. I would much prefer all you users to stay with one username. Signing on under an anonymous username with no profile info just to make one more post directing people to Jim's site is a bit much. As I have said before, feel free to continue discussing this topic right here, where it originated and where it is sure to get the most timely responses. PS: Additionally, there are more than a few of us on these forums who are/were district organizers for the CPC. I can promise you that I know the rules and so do the other guys posting with authority. I don't know about the rest of the guys with such experience posting here, but I do know for a fact that it is simply not a big deal to setup a carving speed course, then use another set of straight gates for both distance and zone accuracy. Ultimately the three basic courses that the CPC tenants were based on are: carving speed, distance, and zone accuracy. Granted, I am one year out of the loop now, but I never competed in or ran any sanctioned event that had a straight speed course. That is swooping professionally under three banners: ECPA, PPPB, and PST. That is all the Jim/Reggie, Jim/Lyle, Just Jim, and then Jim/Lyle again evolutions of "professional" organizaton. I give a rat's ass what I get stuck doing as a Professional, but I truly believe that CPC guys ought to be tested on the skills that the organization was originally based on. Carving speed is by and far the most technical of those events and I find it a bit outrageous that guys are not having to display that ability at the championships. Particularly when, like many in this thread have stated, that is the one event that they put the most practice into. I don't get it. The test to prove your worthiness for Pro qualification involves navigating a carving speed course. That has been written in stone for some years now. Judging by the current "news flashes" from whomever is spamming this board with additional info about the event, the top ten guys are all going to get Pro cards. Odd, seeing as how they will not be demonstrating their carving speed prowess (a requisite. the actual Pro test) at the event. I don't get it. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/SL/TM-I, PRO, BMCI-4, and a currently retired four year professional swooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites proswooper 2 #68 August 4, 2006 I agree Chuck When i first qualified for the PST it was the requisite to be able to negotiate a carve course consistently and at the entry level i found it very challenging. to do it well is very technical. to fly the most efficient line and approach is very technical. and i feel it should be part of any event. however the reasons stated in my previous post are the ones i was told so i put my feelings aside and get on with doing what i love and flying whatever course i have to. it does seem like a step back in difficulty to go to straight speed and i hope they will change it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #69 August 4, 2006 QuoteOdd, seeing as how they will not be demonstrating their carving speed prowess (a requisite. the actual Pro test) at the event. I don't get it. Hence my previous posts about the organization not taking actions that lend credibility to the CPC as a whole. Not a uniform understanding and execution of the rules and no consistancy from the "national director" of the CPC. I want to see it succeed, but it will never succeed headed down this road. It will never have the credibility it needs to be as big as Jim wants to see it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #70 August 4, 2006 QuoteThe test to prove your worthiness for Pro qualification involves navigating a carving speed course. I'm just one lowly little fish in a big sea and when I'm told to jump, I simply ask "how high?". But it is kind of interesting that in previous years, in order to qualify as a full blown pro on the PST, you had to successfully negotiate the pro 220 foot speed carving course numerous times before you were issued your card. And now this season 10 people will be given pro cards without needing to do this. I fully expect the talent level to be very good (if not excellent) and it should be very competitive this year in CO. So I'm sure the top ten will all be excellent canopy pilots (shit isn't FL alone sending something along the line of 8 really good pilots?). But it is still kind of interesting how things have changed and all the guys last season still needed to earn their cards even after placing in the top ten. I could see the top three automatically been given their pro status, but whatever happened to earning one's slot? I know I will have a lot of satisfaction if I actually earn a slot on the PST (which may never happen) versus buying a slot. But I'm just a little fish in a big sea. So how high should I jump? PS: The rules have been announced for this event and I actually think we wouldn't be helping ourselves if we change them again. The event is only 14 days away. Let's just deal with what we've been given this season and learn from it and make changes where needed for next season. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #71 August 4, 2006 Hey Chuck. We're carving at the Ranch this year. Wanna come jump? ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #72 August 5, 2006 QuoteHey Chuck. We're carving at the Ranch this year. Wanna come jump? which way you like it? straight, to the left, or to the right? me personally, I hang a little left! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #73 August 5, 2006 I like it best both directions, just like they generally do it at the Ranch. I shows that you can throw turns both ways, or that you can modify your one turn (like me; I only turn right) to make it both ways. Old PPPB meets used to be the same way. One run downwind left (for example) and one run right, into the wind. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #74 August 5, 2006 i was going to be sarcastic and funny. but I deleted it... dont want to be like that base jumper calling you a troll. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites meatbomb 0 #75 August 7, 2006 From another thread, posted an hour ago: QuoteJust to be clear, the 2006 CPC Championships will have the normal carving speed course just like last year's championships. Looks like the people talked, and the power listened...--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
CurrentTV 0 #57 August 3, 2006 I have talked with Jim this week and I think there was some confusion on this forum. The pilots of the CPC will not drag water through the speed course at the 2006 CPC Championships. At the recent PST event (2006 Swoop Festival) there was the "Ultimate Speed" event which challenged competitors to a straight speed course while dragging water but this will not be the same for the CPC Championships. The CPC Championships will have a normal, straight speed course. There has always been three choices to the organizer. The left carving course, the right carving course and the straight speed course. Which one is used during competition is up to the organizer. In fact, previous swoop competitions including the IPC canopy Piloting events have had speed rounds in every direction including straight! Someone told me a long time ago that you have to have thick skin to be in this game and Jim has really thick skin. Look how much exposure you guys are giving to the CPC/PST! Remember, there is no such thing as bad Plublicity. Jim won't give you guys the time of day as long as you keep talking all the bull. You think he is losing sleep over the whole thing? If you don't like the rules then its simple, just don't show up. This is what you have missed this year so far... $20,000 cash purse PST Canopy Cup $5,000 cash purse PST Florida Pro/Am $5,000 cash purse PST Air Festival $5,000 cash purse CPC Championships Local, National & Global TV coverage of the Pro Swooping Tour. P.S. You might also want to read the rules at www.canopypiloting.com/cpcrules.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #58 August 3, 2006 QuoteLook how much exposure you guys are giving to the CPC/PST! just show up kids, there is a place for everyone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #59 August 4, 2006 Quoteas far as changing the course from carved to straight, they probably did this for safety reason as a lot of pilots got fucked up on this event last year. plus it makes course changes easier too. People got fucked up on the event because they assumed it was to have 5 foot blades on the inside of the turn where as the rules always stated 10 footers and a bunch of yahoos never learned how to properly fly that course. Quotetell you what, you start organizing competitions on a national level then start talking shit. Why should he? There have been plenty of competitions before the CPC and there are plenty that hapen other than the CPC.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #60 August 4, 2006 QuoteTeam Chaos, in various forms, has been at both the meets I attended. TJ, Jeffo, Luke Aikens. It's Xaos. Like the canopy. TX flies Icarus products. QuoteIcarus is no more You talk to the boys in San Diego about that?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #61 August 4, 2006 QuoteQuote On behalf of Jim, Thanks for taking part in the Canopy Piloting Pyramid Scam. Why dont you just keep your head in your ass and leave the discussion for the adults. The course change has to do with the length of time it takes to set up a carve course Vs a straight course. simple. You know, you just showed your ass right there. Fuck any respect I had for you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #62 August 4, 2006 QuoteIt's Xaos. Like the canopy. Dude. I can't believe I made that type o. DOH! As for TJ I know he flies ICARUS now but in the timeframe I was responding to, he was on XAOS (see I can spell it right LOL) QuoteYou talk to the boys in San Diego about that? My reference was to Team Extreme. Now come on, I know you didn't miss the point of my post. It didn't really have much to do with Team Extreme, Chaos (I'm kidding!) or TJ To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyedivr 0 #63 August 4, 2006 QuoteThere has always been three choices to the organizer. The left carving course, the right carving course and the straight speed course. Which one is used during competition is up to the organizer. P.S. You might also want to read the rules at www.canopypiloting.com/cpcrules.htm Nice post.my power is beyond your understanding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
proswooper 2 #64 August 4, 2006 I apologise if i upset you or your friend but i dont appreciate comments about my friends like that. if anyone thinks jim is getting rich off of this thing then all you have to do is look at the shack he lives in and the piece of shit he drives. I have utmost respect for him because he benefits very little from the amount of work that he does to organise all of these events. All the prize monies come from the dropzones that host the events. my original although somewhat distorted point was that The reason he went to straight speed, as told to me anyways, was to facilitate much quicker course changes. ie speed to accuracy to distance. all the same course markers can be used and it takes less time. I wondered the same thing and that is the answer i got. Now if you still have a problem with what i am saying then look me up at the next swoop meet and i will be happy to discuss it over tea and crumpetts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #65 August 4, 2006 Real estate in longmont is not that cheap. I'm going to go back being the asshole that everyone thinks I am now. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #66 August 4, 2006 Quotei will be happy to discuss it over tea and crumpetts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #67 August 4, 2006 If CurrentTV is an additional logon for Jim Slaton, inc, then I am going to delete it. I would much prefer all you users to stay with one username. Signing on under an anonymous username with no profile info just to make one more post directing people to Jim's site is a bit much. As I have said before, feel free to continue discussing this topic right here, where it originated and where it is sure to get the most timely responses. PS: Additionally, there are more than a few of us on these forums who are/were district organizers for the CPC. I can promise you that I know the rules and so do the other guys posting with authority. I don't know about the rest of the guys with such experience posting here, but I do know for a fact that it is simply not a big deal to setup a carving speed course, then use another set of straight gates for both distance and zone accuracy. Ultimately the three basic courses that the CPC tenants were based on are: carving speed, distance, and zone accuracy. Granted, I am one year out of the loop now, but I never competed in or ran any sanctioned event that had a straight speed course. That is swooping professionally under three banners: ECPA, PPPB, and PST. That is all the Jim/Reggie, Jim/Lyle, Just Jim, and then Jim/Lyle again evolutions of "professional" organizaton. I give a rat's ass what I get stuck doing as a Professional, but I truly believe that CPC guys ought to be tested on the skills that the organization was originally based on. Carving speed is by and far the most technical of those events and I find it a bit outrageous that guys are not having to display that ability at the championships. Particularly when, like many in this thread have stated, that is the one event that they put the most practice into. I don't get it. The test to prove your worthiness for Pro qualification involves navigating a carving speed course. That has been written in stone for some years now. Judging by the current "news flashes" from whomever is spamming this board with additional info about the event, the top ten guys are all going to get Pro cards. Odd, seeing as how they will not be demonstrating their carving speed prowess (a requisite. the actual Pro test) at the event. I don't get it. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/SL/TM-I, PRO, BMCI-4, and a currently retired four year professional swooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
proswooper 2 #68 August 4, 2006 I agree Chuck When i first qualified for the PST it was the requisite to be able to negotiate a carve course consistently and at the entry level i found it very challenging. to do it well is very technical. to fly the most efficient line and approach is very technical. and i feel it should be part of any event. however the reasons stated in my previous post are the ones i was told so i put my feelings aside and get on with doing what i love and flying whatever course i have to. it does seem like a step back in difficulty to go to straight speed and i hope they will change it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #69 August 4, 2006 QuoteOdd, seeing as how they will not be demonstrating their carving speed prowess (a requisite. the actual Pro test) at the event. I don't get it. Hence my previous posts about the organization not taking actions that lend credibility to the CPC as a whole. Not a uniform understanding and execution of the rules and no consistancy from the "national director" of the CPC. I want to see it succeed, but it will never succeed headed down this road. It will never have the credibility it needs to be as big as Jim wants to see it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #70 August 4, 2006 QuoteThe test to prove your worthiness for Pro qualification involves navigating a carving speed course. I'm just one lowly little fish in a big sea and when I'm told to jump, I simply ask "how high?". But it is kind of interesting that in previous years, in order to qualify as a full blown pro on the PST, you had to successfully negotiate the pro 220 foot speed carving course numerous times before you were issued your card. And now this season 10 people will be given pro cards without needing to do this. I fully expect the talent level to be very good (if not excellent) and it should be very competitive this year in CO. So I'm sure the top ten will all be excellent canopy pilots (shit isn't FL alone sending something along the line of 8 really good pilots?). But it is still kind of interesting how things have changed and all the guys last season still needed to earn their cards even after placing in the top ten. I could see the top three automatically been given their pro status, but whatever happened to earning one's slot? I know I will have a lot of satisfaction if I actually earn a slot on the PST (which may never happen) versus buying a slot. But I'm just a little fish in a big sea. So how high should I jump? PS: The rules have been announced for this event and I actually think we wouldn't be helping ourselves if we change them again. The event is only 14 days away. Let's just deal with what we've been given this season and learn from it and make changes where needed for next season. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #71 August 4, 2006 Hey Chuck. We're carving at the Ranch this year. Wanna come jump? ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #72 August 5, 2006 QuoteHey Chuck. We're carving at the Ranch this year. Wanna come jump? which way you like it? straight, to the left, or to the right? me personally, I hang a little left! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #73 August 5, 2006 I like it best both directions, just like they generally do it at the Ranch. I shows that you can throw turns both ways, or that you can modify your one turn (like me; I only turn right) to make it both ways. Old PPPB meets used to be the same way. One run downwind left (for example) and one run right, into the wind. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #74 August 5, 2006 i was going to be sarcastic and funny. but I deleted it... dont want to be like that base jumper calling you a troll. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #75 August 7, 2006 From another thread, posted an hour ago: QuoteJust to be clear, the 2006 CPC Championships will have the normal carving speed course just like last year's championships. Looks like the people talked, and the power listened...--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
