Monk 0 #76 September 20, 2006 Jumped my friends Neos 119. I'm 240lbs out the door so you can do the math. Openings were butter! Severly nice. Ground Hungary! Nonexistant natural recovery arc. Definitely designed with rears in mind. My least favorite aspect....SEVERE oversteer. Thought I was gonna spin it up a couple of times. If you get on the fronts take a look at the rears!!! Almost completely Slack! So flying strictly on the front leading edge. Which is why I think it has way too much oversteer. The shut down was great! Will dive forever and a day. Had to start my turns much higher than I would have initially thought. Plus I thought it needed to be loaded a little more than I was loading it at. All in all there will be lots of people who will like this canopy. But you will have to learn how to fly all over again with this thing. Camera Flyers will F*CKING love it for the openings and the better performance than their Xfire2's. Just my .02 Spence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #77 September 21, 2006 It has a recovery arc. All canopies do. Perhaps you are just starting your turn too low and not allowing it to recover. Also, why would there be slack in the rear line groups? The only reason I would see this happening is when you are pulling down the fronts and you have toggles in your hands, in the case that the brake lines are too short, it will pull the tail down leaving slack in the D's and possibly the C lines. Ir shouldn't happen from simply pulling on the fronts. The lines could be bowing from drag created by the lines also. Quote Ground Hungary! Nonexistant natural recovery arc. Definitely designed with rears in mind. My least favorite aspect....SEVERE oversteer. Thought I was gonna spin it up a couple of times. If you get on the fronts take a look at the rears!!! Almost completely Slack! So flying strictly on the front leading edge. Which is why I think it has way too much oversteer. The shut down was great! Will dive forever and a day. Had to start my turns much higher than I would have initially thought. Plus I thought it needed to be loaded a little more than I was loading it at. All in all there will be lots of people who will like this canopy. But you will have to learn how to fly all over again with this thing. Camera Flyers will F*CKING love it for the openings and the better performance than their Xfire2's. Just my .02 Spence Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #78 September 21, 2006 I jumped the Riot 107 from Flight Concepts this summer and I noticed that their D lines had a bow in them in full flight. The C's were under some tension but the A's were taking the majority of the loading and the B's were really stresssed too.. If its the same concept on trim with the NEOS then the front riser pressue is going to be way up there like a VX or something. It was odd to be looking up and seeing the bow in both thwe D'z and the steering lines. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #79 September 21, 2006 Quotetheir D lines had a bow in them in full flight. The C's were under some tension but the A's were taking the majority of the loading and the B's were really stresssed too.. I have heard of an onyx being trimmed the same way during testing. Once the front groups were loaded up they started noticing bowed D's and C's Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monk 0 #80 September 22, 2006 I was stressing my point of it being ground hungary. But thank you for showing me and EVERYONE else how f*cking smart you are and how much more you know. Of course it has a F*CKING recovery arc. My point was that it was designed with rears in mind. PERIOD! I bet you were a hall monitor in grade school werent you? Take a moment and correct my spelling and grammar and punctuation too while you're at it you f*cking dork. And as for your horseshit theory about the brake lines too short.....get a grip. God I love it when someone comes on and posts telling me I am wrong. Were you there while I was flying the damn thing? No...then shut your Cryhole. What an ass. Monk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #81 September 22, 2006 Relax, it's all good.To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #82 September 22, 2006 Red and I spoke about the C and D lines and we (with other testers inpute too) came to the conclusion that they do hold the load but, yes there is that much drag to create a bow on normal full flight, and it is more pronounced when using the fronts and holding toggles at the same time tends to unload the D's even more as mentioned earlier. I hope our sport doesn't need steel cables for suspension lines, the stows are gonna be a bitch to make. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monk 0 #83 September 22, 2006 It has a recovery arc. All canopies do. Perhaps you are just starting your turn too low and not allowing it to recover. Also, why would there be slack in the rear line groups? The only reason I would see this happening is when you are pulling down the fronts and you have toggles in your hands, in the case that the brake lines are too short, it will pull the tail down leaving slack in the D's and possibly the C lines. Ir shouldn't happen from simply pulling on the fronts. The lines could be bowing from drag created by the lines also. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground Hungary! Nonexistant natural recovery arc. Definitely designed with rears in mind. My least favorite aspect....SEVERE oversteer. Thought I was gonna spin it up a couple of times. If you get on the fronts take a look at the rears!!! Almost completely Slack! So flying strictly on the front leading edge. Which is why I think it has way too much oversteer. The shut down was great! Will dive forever and a day. Had to start my turns much higher than I would have initially thought. Plus I thought it needed to be loaded a little more than I was loading it at. All in all there will be lots of people who will like this canopy. But you will have to learn how to fly all over again with this thing. Camera Flyers will F*CKING love it for the openings and the better performance than their Xfire2's. Just my .02 Spence -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________ Cheers, Travis _________________________________________________ You're lucky they deleted my post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monk 0 #84 September 22, 2006 QuoteRed and I spoke about the C and D lines and we (with other testers inpute too) came to the conclusion that they do hold the load but, yes there is that much drag to create a bow on normal full flight, and it is more pronounced when using the fronts and holding toggles at the same time tends to unload the D's even more as mentioned earlier. I hope our sport doesn't need steel cables for suspension lines, the stows are gonna be a bitch to make. Matt I was thinking that the slack I saw was the culprit for the huge amount of oversteer I was seeing on front riser hooks. Don't get me wrong it was easiliy tackled by starting the turn higher and finishing with double fronts and just a little extra on the opposite riser to stop it. However there were a couple of times I got on it and felt it was gonna spin up. Monk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #85 September 22, 2006 Your gonna have to ask the good swoopers about this. I am not a good swooper, I don't use my brakes on the Riot except to finish my landing, other wise I do all the manuevering by risers. While jumping the FCI Riot 107, I did do several Clear and pulls at 14K in Xenia Ohio and tried to spin the canopy up with radicle riser/toggle input, it took a bit of work, but I did get 2 complete 360's a couple of times. I like it a lot and will keep it and use it as an all around work horse for me. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #86 September 22, 2006 The riser pressure on the Neos is nothing like the VX. The pressure on the Neos is pretty light and very managable. I have not seen any slack in full flight in any lines. If you hang like an ape on the front risers on any canopy, you can get some of the rear lines to go slack. The Neos is very different from the VX. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YISkyDive 0 #87 September 22, 2006 which canopy do you like more? VX or NEOs? Is the neos in the Xbraced category, or is more of a Katana class canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #88 September 23, 2006 Aside from the distance I am currently getting, I prefer the Neos in every way. With the speed I can get in the air with my Neos, I think in the future I will be going further than my VX. I am just way to used to my VX to be very good with the Neos yet. I gave the Neos to a kid on the DZ who does pretty good with his Velo and he tore the landing area up. He went way further than I have yet so it gave me hope. After pond swoop is over, I am gonna focus on learning who to land this thing cause I like it so much. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P-dro 0 #90 September 30, 2006 Awesome pictures, the fourth one is now my desktop wallpaper... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHips 0 #91 October 1, 2006 I have done a handful of jumps on my new Neos 119, and I have to say I love it. I also have a VX 94 that I have jumped for the last 2 years and if only for the openings I will probably take the rig with the Neos in it nearly every time from now on. I load the VX 94 at 2.6 and the Neos at 2.1 so the wing loading accounts for most of the speed difference. The Neos is trimmed steeper than the standard VX trim so the Neos is much easier to keep diving, I have found so far. The openings as most that have jumped it have commented are on heading, soft and predictable. Harness movement during opening seems to have less effect than with a VX. The slider is quite large, probably partly responsible for the softness. Packing bulk is good. I would guess my Neos 119 (the largest size) packs about the same as a VX 104. Well done to the designers. I think they have created a fantastic canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #92 October 31, 2006 Quotewyat was recently at my home dz for a canopy coarse. he said the neos will be available in 2007. when in 2007 is unknown. I have one in my rig now, waiting this weekend to jump it... Anyone else has one ? Jumped one ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #93 October 31, 2006 Opens nice and that about it.....It's not a Velo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #94 October 31, 2006 it's not meant to be a Velo (BTW this made me laugh.. in french if you say "It's not a Velo" it means It's not a bicycle)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #95 October 31, 2006 QuoteAnyone else has one ? Jumped one ? You bought a canopy before demoing it or reading any reviews? Edit: I did about 5 jumps on a 99. It's openings were more precise than my Crossfire2 109, but I think that is because it is a bit faster. I thought it had a lot of oversteer. I found the riser pressure to be greater than me Crossfire2 or the Katana 107 that I have jumped. I'd have to do more jumps on it to know whether the oversteer or the riser pressure would discourage me from buying one.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #96 November 1, 2006 QuoteYou bought a canopy before demoing it or reading any reviews?Yes, read some about it and pretty sure several points are what I'm looking for. Plus I got a very good deal on it. Never had the opportunity to demo one, but I trust Icarus to please me as much as they did with my Safire and my Crossfire. Now I have it, so I will be able to judge by myself, and will take into consideration your points on the oversteer and the riser pressurescissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #97 November 11, 2006 1st jump on it, quite turbulent air conditions between 1500 and 500m.. nice sweet "Icarus" opening, found myself hanging very low under the canopy (lines seem to me approx 40cm longer than on my Crossfire2 119). Loved the way it flies, did a "quite short double front riser" straight final and the landing was looooong That was a VERY good first impression. scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #98 November 13, 2006 You didn't think it had greater riser pressure than your Crossfire or any oversteer?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #99 November 13, 2006 my first impression was lighter front riser pressure, didnt notice "noticeable" oversteer, but once again I only did 1 jump with it, in quite irregular wind conditions, and at quite high altitude (1020m ASL)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grosfion 0 #100 November 13, 2006 did you jump a CF2 same size before to compare? What final turn do you usually use 90/270? Any difference in the recovery after the turn? Any fancy pictures? blues, Marcus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
