kc10boom 0 #1 January 6, 2006 Made a jump today, the jump was uneventful, good deployment. There was only five on this load and four of us ended up somewhat close together as we all came in on the base leg. I jump at SkyDance and the landing area is flooded out. There is only the gravel taxi way(high-perfomance landing area) available right now. As I noticed that we all seemed to be heading for the same are to land(40+' wide x 200+' long) I got in my brakes a little to see where everyone was heading. I started to commit to the right side of the taxi way and noticed that a jumper, who was above and behind me, did not notice where I was flying to. She seemed to be locked on to were she wanted to land and had tunnel vision. I had to turn off to the right and land in the wet ass field. I did not want to yell at her under canopy, fearing that she might toggle herself into the ground. We were still at 250-300 feet, should I have yelled over to her to crab to the left or did I do the right thing by staying aware and turning off? This girl never jumped at Davis before and I just bit my tounge when I got to the ground. Was I right for not saying anything or should I have spoke up? NKAWTG...N Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #2 January 6, 2006 I would have spoken up on the ground. She will never know what she did was wrong if someone doesn't tell her. At the holiday boogie someone cut Aggiedave off about 50 feet from the ground. He went over to him and had a few well choosen words with him.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #3 January 6, 2006 You say she was above you, so at that point you had the right of way. But somehow you neglected to tell us how you and her all of a sudden you found each other at the same level (with her now in front of you?). Did she hook down in on top of you (in which case yes she was in the wrong and needed to be talked to) or did you not help the situation by staying in brakes allowing her to over take you (she may not be innocent, but people need to fly predictable patterns and flying slow on final isn't all that predictable to those not paying attention to your progression). I'm not trying to lay blame here on you or her, it's just that you didn't describe very well how she went from above you to being in conflict with you. It's important to be calm when talking to people on the ground (abusive behavior is often greeted with an abusive response). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #4 January 6, 2006 Quote... I did not want to yell at her under canopy, fearing that she might toggle herself into the ground. We were still at 250-300 feet, should I have yelled over to her to crab to the left or did I do the right thing by staying aware and turning off? This girl never jumped at Davis before and I just bit my tounge when I got to the ground. Was I right for not saying anything or should I have spoke up? You were right not to yell at her in the air in this situation (only yell when you have to in order to prevent a collision). Talk to her after the landing (or ask an instructor to do the talking). Jurgen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #5 January 6, 2006 Quoteor did I do the right thing by staying aware and turning off? This girl never jumped at Davis before and I just bit my tounge when I got to the ground. Was I right for not saying anything or should I have spoke up you did the right thing. in situations like this, egos can also get in the way, with your amount of jump numbers, I praise you for the decisions you made when you saw a situation arising. one thing you could have done after the fact was speak to the s&ta about what happened and let them deal with the other jumper, maybe she needs more training. good job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #6 January 6, 2006 If you didn't talk to her, how do you know she didn't see you and had tunnel vision on her landing spot? Could it be that your pattern was not predictable? You say you were on your base leg when she over took you. How would she know where you were going to turn final? Also, was her parachute smaller than yours? If so, you did no favors by hanging brakes. An important thing to consider when things get congested: Assess up high which canopies are out-desending you. Hold brakes ONLY when you are up high to allow them to fall in below you. Holding brakes at 200 or 300 feet implys indecision. It makes you a traffic hazard. I'm not saying that this was the case. But maybe look at what you could have done differently to prevent this at the last moment. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #7 January 6, 2006 QuoteAssess up high which canopies are out-desending you. Good post Bonnie ... It's also a good idea to look at who's on your load before the airplane even takes off determining what sort of jump they are doing, what type of gear they jump and what sort of landing approach they use and where you think you'll fit into the landing pattern. Sometimes it makes sense to try and be the first one down. Sometimes it makes sense to try and hang in brakes and be last and often it makes sense to try and find your window in the middle of the load. If you have a game plan before you even jump, then you're a step ahead of the action and it's harder to get surprised by someone else. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #8 January 6, 2006 Quoteone thing you could have done after the fact was speak to the s&ta about what happened and let them deal with the other jumper I agree. That's what they are there for (fyi, both Keith and Neal are S&TA's; if Keith's on the dz he tries to watch as many loads land as he can). Until the landing area dries out there will be traffic issues. You can avoid this in the future, even once the waters recede, by planning ahead. Look at who is on the load with you. If you don't already know them and what they fly, ask people what canopies/wingloadings they are flying and where they are pulling before you leave the airplane. With that information you can decide where to put yourself in the "lineup" for landing, and work on creating spacing before anyone enters the pattern. If you know that you are one of those with heavier loadings you can spiral down so you are one of the first in the pattern (in your case, after the swoopers but before those flying big boats, like me); if you know you're one of those with lighter loadings you can hang in brakes to enter the pattern later. Good job staying aware and landing safely! edit to add - It's worthwhile to spend some time when you aren't jumping or packing watching loads land. Keith is a good person to do this with; I've learned a lot about setting up and flying patterns in traffic from him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kc10boom 0 #9 January 7, 2006 Thanks for all the input. I talked to the S&TA and cleared up the issue. I should have said something to the jumper, but i was to pissed about landing in shit I learned how to handle the situation and now am better prepared for the future...Boom NKAWTG...N Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #10 January 7, 2006 From a newbies P.O.V.: Definitley say something on the ground. Us new guys won't learn as fast unless others speak up when we fuck up. Prolly best you didn't shout to her in the air cuz she may have panicked like you thought. Just an aborted landing is frustrating, and into a swamped LZ? That sucks even more. Obviously don't go in bitching and screaming, but just let 'em know they fucked up in a very matter of fact way, and explain how to avoid similar incidents in the future. Recently I had a student track right below me, pulled just under 5, im usually dumping at 3.5, if i hadnt glanced down and caught him reaching to deploy we both woulda been dead. On the ground i just explained to him the purpose of perpendicular tracking, and he was super apologetic and will prolly take note of jump run now and wont do it again :-) Say stuff, we need to learn, but be nice! Clear skies all!So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #11 January 8, 2006 Only five of you on the load and four of you all had to land at the same time? I think people need to pay more attention to vertical separation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kami-kaze 0 #12 January 9, 2006 um...are any problems to getting peoples attention while under canopy? I get this feeling that people are not communicating enough on the load. we all get a bit vague once in a while...why not holler more especially when we are making that final approach and even to people that are already on the ground when coming in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 January 9, 2006 QuoteIt's important to be calm when talking to people on the ground (abusive behavior is often greeted with an abusive response). Quote of the year here. GREAT especially since the original poster is a low timer, hard to tell who might have broken 'normal' good patterns. It's always the other guy's fault - at first. Best to get together, with the "did you see me on final? Here's what I saw, how about you?" approach. Much better than (even Calmly) saying "Hi, you know how you messed up just now?" it's just possible that the 'screw up' might have been trapped on the left by two other canopies and boxed into the edge by "some newbie holding brakes right under me - we had room to land in formation on the left, but he decided to ditch to the mud".....{hypothetical response here} ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
