Using front risers for penetrating winds

[jheadley 0]

I've been told that if you have a short spot (the wind is blowing at you instead of with you), then you can use front risers to help penetrate the winds. I read in brian germain's book that in low to moderate winds, you can use rear risers to help you get back, which will keep foward speed the same but just lower your vertical speed.

I understand that pulling front risers make the angle of attack steeper which increases your vertical speed, so I'm wondering why that would be beneficial for a strong headwind. If I had to guess, I'd say that while front risers does increase your vertical drop dramatically, it also increases foward speed a little bit? If the winds are blowing at 15mph and your canopy's foward speed is 15mph, you wouldn't go anywhere, but if you pulled front risers, and it did increase your foward speed to say 18mph, that would help you back, although it will get you down a lot faster. Am I correct?

Also, when a canopy "planes out" after a front riser turn, does it just plane out to back to it's normal glide, or does it actually plane out like it does when you flare?

Thanks.

[johnny1488 1]

Its different on every canopy and you need to try everything for yourself. That being said.

On most of the canopes I have jumped front risers does yeild a bit more forward drive bit a lot faster rate of desent. Might not be worth it unless you are completely standing still.

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understand that pulling front risers make the angle of attack steeper which increases your vertical speed

Just a bit of semantics here, but pulling on your front risers only momentarily changes your angle of attack. What it does change is your angle of incidence, or built in trim.

As far as the plane out after a front riser turn, it depends on the recover arc of the canopy, loading and rate and speed of the turn. A canopy with a short recovery arc very fell could "auto flare" after a hard front riser turn.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[kaerock 1]

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it also increases foward speed a little bit? If the winds are blowing at 15mph and your canopy's foward speed is 15mph, you wouldn't go anywhere, but if you pulled front risers, and it did increase your foward speed to say 18mph, that would help you back, although it will get you down a lot faster. Am I correct?

Short answer, you are correct.

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Also, when a canopy "planes out" after a front riser turn, does it just plane out to back to it's normal glide, or does it actually plane out like it does when you flare?

Thanks.

That depends on the canopy, but generally they will all eventually return to their 'normal glide', some will do it faster than others and some will either pitch up (positive recovery) or level-out (neutral recovery).

-R

You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

[faulknerwn 36]

Remember though - how much you pull on your front risers is important. If you pull just a tiny bit, you increase your drive but only sink a tiny bit faster. If you pull a lot, then you sink like a rock and don't gain much drive..

W

[billvon 2,400]

>I understand that pulling front risers make the angle of attack steeper
> which increases your vertical speed, so I'm wondering why that would be
> beneficial for a strong headwind.

In _rare_ cases yes. If you are getting pushed backwards slightly, going to front risers may stop the backward motion and allow to to advance a bit. Even if it doesn't get you going forward, it will at least get you on the ground sooner and thus you will drift backwards less. If you're stopped or just barely moving, you may be able to use front risers to make a little forward progress.

But if you're getting any forward speed at all, generally it's going to be better to 'trim up' the canopy for best penetration. Kill the slider, pull it down (if possible) slide your legstraps forward so you can sit (and present less drag) and loosen your chest strap. This will tend to improve your L/D and thus improve both your hang time (and the longer you're up, the more progress you make) and your horizontal speed.

[YISkyDive 0]

Also, a big thing with front risers and wind is if you pull them too much, or have a lightly loaded canopy it could cause a collapse.

I had my canopy collapse at 300 feet up my first jump of the season because i pulled my front risers down too much in moderate wind. I believe Germain also talks about those dangers as well..

-dave.

[Pendragon 1]

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Remember though - how much you pull on your front risers is important. If you pull just a tiny bit, you increase your drive but only sink a tiny bit faster. If you pull a lot, then you sink like a rock and don't gain much drive..

W

As illustrated by a polar curve: see

www.pilotnotes.co.uk/index1.html for a good source of info

Min sink would obviously be at the maxima on the curve; max glide would be at a point on the curve where the chord (from the origin for nil wind; -10 for a 10 mph tail wind or +10 for a 10 mph headwind) touches. Naturally, the ideal position to be is closer to min sink for a tailwind (staying aloft in the moving airmass for longer; same reason why we dump flat flyers out before freeflyers during when upper winds are high). For the headwind, think of it this way: if the airspeed of the wing = windspeed, you are coming straight down. Pulling on the front risers a little allows penetration (and increases glide).

Hope that helps!

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[davenuk 7]

necrobump!

is there a broad rule of thumb for at what speeds front riser input is going to be useful when trying to get back from a long spot (or is it short spot, you are downwind trying to fly into wind to get to the PLA)?

i get that if you are at a standstill, head on wind speed = usual canopy flight speed, then front risers will sacrifice height for forward movement, but at some point between wind = usual canopy flight speed and wind = 0 there must be a point where front risers are detrimental to the goal of maximum distance.

is there a ball park like wind > 80% of usual canopy speed?


sorry if i've not explained it very well.

thanks

[Deimian 43]

My personal rule is that if I need to use front risers to get where I want to (while flying upwind), I'm better off looking for an alternative landing area downwind.

Front risers will give you a marginal better wind penetration. Relying on them to barely make it is dangerous.

[pchapman 261]

I think the answers already given are decent, including those from before the thread bump.

How your canopy moves over the ground in a given wind and given input is hard to know. Use the accuracy trick to see if you are doing any better. I don't recall anyone suggesting a particular percentage of canopy speed as a guideline.

Similar to the previous poster: if you are up high then it is usually easier to find an alternate landing area (at least in the relatively uncluttered places I jump), rather than bothering to do a partial-chinup on the front risers for the next minute or two. The amount of extra distance you gain out of front risering may not be that much, given the bother.

Serious front risering I would tend to do only if I really really need to make it forward a little more, like to make it over a tree line into a field (when I'm already low and committed).

[billvon 2,400]

>is there a broad rule of thumb for at what speeds front riser input is going to be useful when trying to
>get back from a long spot (or is it short spot, you are downwind trying to fly into wind to get to the
>PLA)?

A good rule of thumb is that it's never useful, with very few exceptions. As others have mentioned, if you are downwind and not making any progress, then start looking for outs. If you are being blown backwards somewhere dangerous (i.e. out to sea) then front risers can help you two ways - they can increase your speed a little (this is a minor factor) but will get you on the ground faster and put you closer to shore (that is the big factor.) But be very cautious using them in this manner. In winds that strong you will likely be getting a fair amount of turbulence, and pulling down front risers makes your canopy much more susceptible to collapse.

[davenuk 7]

thank you