Crossfire2 from a Safire wing load?

[freeflydemon 0]

My weight is 251 lbs with equipment, I started with a 190 sabre for at least 80 jumps (@1.32), then I went to a 170 sabre for 95 jumps (@1.48). A friend gave me his canopy to probe it, it was a safire1 149 (@1.68), I love how this canopy opens, good flare but it doesn't fly to fast and I didn't have to long flares (180º front risers) on it (better than sabres anyway). I made at least 20 jumps on it, but my friend need it, so I gave him back. Now I have to buy my own canopy, a lot of people told me that I have to buy a Crossfire 2 (xfires are very popular on my DZ), but I don't know if buy a Crossfire2 149 (@1.68) or 139 (@1.8).
Some people says that a crossfire on a low wing load isn't too efficient (1.68), that I need at least @1.75, but in the other hand I heard a lot of people talking about good flare and speed on his crossfire at @1.65.
I want the canopy for at least 2 years (350 jumps) but I'm not sure if the canopy flies good at this wing load (@1.68) or if I'll get bore to quick of this size and want to downsizing too quick.

It will make too much difference from 1.68 to 1.8?
Do I have to buy the 139 or the 149?

Anybody talk about his experience, tips, advices, anything.

I can't demo because I'm from Chile and I need a canopy right now.

Thanks
safe swoops

[Canuck 0]

I hope my math is wrong, because if it's not, you have less than 150 jumps and are talkng about jumping a canopy loaded at 1.8.

IMO, unless you are doing the number of jumps in one year that you say you are planning on doing in two years, you have no business jumping a canopy at that type of loading.

And to answer your question, Crossfires fly just fine at wingloadings in the 1.6 range - I've done a bunch of them.

Canuck

[freeflydemon 0]

sorry I have 95 on the 170 sabre, thanks for your answer

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Some people says that a crossfire on a low wing load isn't too efficient (1.68)

Not true at all.

My old xFire2 139 (1.5:1) had enough performance for me to swoop 200+ feet. Don't let anyone make you think that xFire2's are dogs at lighter wing loadings. There's even oldish video on the net (skydivingmovies.com) showing one of those 200+ foot swoops under my old xFire2.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[freeflydemon 0]

Thanks, I think I will try with the biggest one (149). I have my entired life for downsizing.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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a lot of people told me that I have to buy a Crossfire 2 (xfires are very popular on my DZ),

Find a DZ that has GOOD pilots who care about you.

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Some people says that a crossfire on a low wing load isn't too efficient (1.68), that I need at least @1.75,

They're wrong.

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want the canopy for at least 2 years (350 jumps)

Buy a canopy based on what you need NOW, not what you think you'll need in 200 jumps.

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It will make too much difference from 1.68 to 1.8?

If you're asking that question you have no business being on that canopy. The information is out there, it's not just loading, but wing size as well.

1.68 - XF2, 180 degree turns under an unfamilar canopy, 200 jumps.....don't you people learn anything?

I put 600+ jumps on a single canopy in one season and I'm still learning new things about it. What makes you think you have any understanding of your wing with 80 jumps and 95 jumps respectively on the wings you described?

If you think this seems overly negative in tone, TOUGH, I just had a friend life flighted out on the weekend because he wouldn't listen. Frankly, I'm getting tired of wasting my breath.

I think Derricks sig line says it all "THINK"

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[freeflydemon 0]

Find a DZ that has GOOD pilots who care about you.

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They are very good pilots and they told me that because they are looking my landings and they says that I have the skills for this canopy. I know how dangerous it colud be.

1.68 - XF2, 180 degree turns under an unfamilar canopy, 200 jumps.....don't you people learn anything?

***
I made 180º turns after a few jumps on it, safire isn't an agressive canopy, this is how I land.

I put 600+ jumps on a single canopy in one season and I'm still learning new things about it. What makes you think you have any understanding of your wing with 80 jumps and 95 jumps respectively on the wings you described?

Who said that?

[ianmdrennan 2]

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They are very good pilots and they told me that because they are looking my landings and they says that I have the skills for this canopy. I know how dangerous.

Then they've lost perspective.

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I made 180º turns after a few jumps on it, safire isn't an agressive canopy, this is how I land.

Any canopy loaded at @1.68 is aggressive. You're showing how little you really know right now.

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I put 600+ jumps on a single canopy in one season and I'm still learning new things about it. What makes you think you have any understanding of your wing with 80 jumps and 95 jumps respectively on the wings you described?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who said that?

I did. It's true. The more I jump my canopy the more I realize how much untapped potential there is.
Good luck with your choice. You've obviously already made it. I just hope no-one sells you the canopy, but someone inevitably will.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AndyMan 7]

As a fellow fat guy, who loads up a big canopy pretty heavily....

You have absolutely no business jumping that canopy.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[freeflyn 0]

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I want the canopy for at least 2 years (350 jumps)

When evaluating a canopy rather than setting a limit by the number of jumps you want to do on it, instead set a proficiency level. Learning to fly a larger wing, and relatively safer wing will improve your awareness, ability and therefore safety. If you are truly interested in becoming a better pilot I strongly recommend attending a canopy piloting course. These courses will not make you an instant amazing swooper, but they can provide you with the necessary tools to keep you alive.

If you feel that people in these forums are over reacting to your question or they are just "Canopy Nazis" this is because we have all been around long enough to see our concerns fall on def ears and result in the pilot paying the ultimate price. I hope you take the time think about your decision, and if you having trouble coming to a conclusion just think; what would your family tell you.

[freeflydemon 0]

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As a fellow fat guy, who loads up a big canopy pretty heavily....

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I'm not fat men, I'm tall (1.96 m)


You have absolutely no business jumping that canopy.

you don't have to be a little skinny boy for a Crossfire, what are you mean? I know a lto of people with big velocity, xfires, Xaos 21........

I don't asking if I can buy a Crossfire, I asking about low wing loads on it.
_Am

[freeflydemon 0]

MAYBE I NEED A SAFIRE 2, 149 @1.68. IT FLIES BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL SAFIRE,

[AggieDave 6]

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I made 180º turns after a few jumps on it, safire isn't an agressive canopy, this is how I land.

You've got to be kidding me!

Any canopy loaded that high is a VERY aggressive canopy. A Safire or Safire2 is an agressive canopy when loaded that high, its an agressive canopy even when loaded a bit lower then that.

Let me tell you about myself, when I had 200 jumps I bought a Heatwave 170. A Heatwave is basically a Stiletto knock-off and I loaded that at 1.7:1. Sure that's not as agressive as a 120 loaded that high, however, I really wish I could go back and tell myself what I know now. That is if I would have started off on a larger canopy loaded lower, lets say a Sabre2 210, I would have learned much MUCH more and would be a MUCH better swooper today. I know that since I've had to go back and learn a lot of things that I should have learned before now.

Eitherway you're going to do what you want and you're going to say that we don't know what your "skill" is, but I hope that you listen (even just a little) to those of us that have "been there and done that" and learn a little. Your safety and life aside, you'll learn more and learn much quicker (not to mention slightly safer) on a larger canopy then the ones you've mentioned thus far.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[spoons 0]

If you were jumping a Safire 1 149 then it's not 149 sq ft. Due to measurement difference or something (do a search on the forums to find out more details if you want) a Safire 149 is more like 138-139 sq ft...this makes your wingloading on it over 1.8!

Makes what you've been doing/jumping seem even more shocking .

[piisfish 135]

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but I don't know if buy a Crossfire2 149 (@1.68) or 139 (@1.8).
Some people says that a crossfire on a low wing load isn't too efficient (1.68), that I need at least @1.75, but in the other hand I heard a lot of people talking about good flare and speed on his crossfire at @1.65.

from the Icarus website

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We recommend wing loadings from 1.4psf to 2.1psf

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[TALONSKY 0]

Since most of us have never seen you fly, I would suggest you talk to the S&TA at your home dropzone. They would be able to help you a lot more than we can. If you stay in the mind set your currently in you will hurt yourself or someone around you, at 200 jumps you have no business being on a highly wing loaded fully elliptical canopy (but then again what do I know, I only had twice as many jumps as you when I started jumping a Crossfire 2 loaded @ 1.85 to 1 and felt way over my head for the first 15 jumps on it) . Oh I am attaching a picture of what I did to myself 2 years ago with my crossfire2 ( back when I thought I knew it all too)

[johnny1488 1]

I have flown a lot of Icarus canopies at a lot of diferent loadings. I have flown Crossfire 2s at loadings from 1.3 to over 2.2. They fly great at a very large range of loadings.

If your profile is indeed correct and you have 204 jumps, any knowledgeable canopiy pilots on your dz would not tell you you need to jump any canopy at a 1.6-1.8 loading. They would tell you that if you did, you would be putting yourself at great risk of injuring or killing yourself.

You also state that you want the canopy for at least 2 years (350 jumps). 175 jumps a year loading a canopy at 1.68 let alone 1.8 is very high for a very expirienced jumper. Excuse me for being blunt but at 204 jumps you are not very expierienced.

As far as the crossfire2 goes, my first one was loaded at 1.4 and flew great(I had a little over 500 jumps when I went to it).

There is so much you can learn about canopy flight at a less dangerous loading. I hope you consider staying at a more conservative loading for a while.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[Martini 0]

TB, I'm sure you have a relatively high skill level, I'll take you at your word. Just remember that even with exceptional skills there is no substitute for experience. Go with the lighter wingloading,

Sometimes you eat the bear..............