JJohnson 0 #1 May 1, 2002 Dan, this one is aimed primarily at you. The ad in the latest Skydiving says the Cobalt is the superior alternative to the Sabre2, Hornet or Safire. I would have thought performance wise it was more akin to the truly ellipticals like the Stilleto, Crossfire and others.....not the lightly ellipitcals or tapered.Comments?JJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 May 1, 2002 I'm not Dan... but I demo'ed both the Cobalt and a Sabre2 135 at a 1.4:1 loading. I liked the forward speed of the Sabre2, it was higher then the Cobalt. The Cobalt turns quicker in the start and hold the speed while a Sabre2 keeps biulding in both a toggle or riser it seemed .But at some points the oversteer was a bIt odd on the Sabre2 and the toggle and riser pressure are way higher then the Cobalt's. The Cobalt is higher proformace then the Sabre2 but its not near like the Stiletto at the same loading. I'm looking at jumping a Crossfire this season a few times to compare everything again.MY opinion.... A Cobalt is at the upper end of the proformance scale if you compare it to a Sabre2, but it is still within the ballpark, provided its lightly loaded.If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #3 May 1, 2002 Any higher performance canopy is going to be in the same ballpark if lightly loaded. A Sabre2 and a Safire should not quite be in the category as a fully elliptical canopy. Stiletto is a full, Crossfire is a full. I've jumped both and I'm demoing a Cobalt now. I liked the Cobalt enough to buy it.I would not put the Cobalt in the same category as a semi-elliptical........It's performance it higher than that.MHO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #4 May 1, 2002 The Safire is technically a fully elliptical and so is the Sabre2... just not to the same level as a Stiletto/Crossfire. The Cobalt has a straight leading edge and latered trailing while the Sabre2 has both front and rear altered a bit. If the Cobalt was marketed as a "semi-elliptical " then it would be a higher proformance "semi-elliptical" The proformance levels of the canopies also need to take into consideration the indiviual thats flying its perceprtion of proformance. Some people think the wind noise is a sign of proformance, others look for turn rate, others riser pressure,glide rate, swoopablitiy... all indiviual factors that need weighted before an assessment of proformance is achieved.If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #5 May 1, 2002 The cobalt does not have a straight leading edge. it's tapered front and back.Arguing whether a canopy is 'fully elliptical' or 'semi-elliptical' or whatever is really a waste of time - the terms have no precise meaning when applied to canopies. It's all just marketing talk, and depends mostly how radical an image the manufacturer wants to project.There's a good explanation here.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhale 0 #6 May 1, 2002 I own 2 Cobalts. To get the performance I was looking for, I had to go down two sizes. I think the ad was intended to target those jumpers not interested in downsizing, yet. If someone were to jump the Sabre2, Hornet or Safire, and then jump the SAME size Cobalt, they would probably realize the benefits of the Cobalt: lighter toggle pressure, faster turns, more flare range for landings, not to mention the ease of packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JumpHog 0 #7 May 1, 2002 Speaking of that Cobalt ad, is that not the sweetest photo you've ever seen(shameless plug)!!!Blue Skies,Paul Eriksmoen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #8 May 1, 2002 Quotenot to mention the ease of packing.Actually the Hornet is quite easy to pack too. The price difference is quite substantial as well. One day when I am ready for an elliptical canopy at a heavier loading I would invest the big $$$s in a main, right now I'd rather spend that money on jump tickets...WillPS not that it has happened in this thread but any manufacturer slagging off my current canopy doesn't do themselves any favours when I am looking for a new main."Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #9 May 1, 2002 cobalts are imo a superior choice over a sabre2, hornet or safire. the airfoil and planform was developed for a begineer to intermediate wing several generations ago. we created what we believe was the first stable & predictible elliptical design, free from stereotypical negative traits . with refinement we developed our tensioned skin technology and were able to increase rigidity and lower airfoil distortion. this high efficiency combined with the stable nature of the canopy opened the flood gates for an underground following of pilots that highly load our canopies. we definately have a passion for swoop machines, but our primary focus has always been safety. we have strived to improve the sport with our research and development of the staged deployments, and highest glide ratio canopy. in the past the predecessor to the cobalt was marketed under different names. identical was the alpha and space. the alpha marketed as a swoop machine and the space as a begineers canopy. we have produced thousands of 'space' canopies for begineers with a flawless record. i believe the sabre 2 was developed as a direct answer to our developments. some may say it was in answer to the safire but imo the safire flies slightly better than a sabre but openings not much better and efficiency is low (flare is not greatly increased). i believe it was atair canopies that set the stage for people to no longer accept neck breaking openings and fly a design that was stable with dramatically increased glide and flare and low foward speed.sorry if i was a little preachy, i am working on a presentation today and i guess have it on the brain.btw the cobalt has a linear (straight line taper) both nose and tail.sincerely,danatair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #10 May 1, 2002 Now if only yall had a 190, since I would be loading a 170 at 1.6:1 and am not ready for that kind of loading...A human cannonball, I rise above it allUp higher then a trapeze, I can fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #11 May 1, 2002 Dave,I believe Dan said in an earlier thread, that with enough interest, they would produce a 190.malachi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 May 1, 2002 He said that when I talked to him on the phone too, I'm just doing my part to help foster some support. A human cannonball, I rise above it allUp higher then a trapeze, I can fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #13 May 1, 2002 QuoteOne day when I am ready for an elliptical canopy at a heavier loading I would invest the big $$$s in a main, right now I'd rather spend that money on jump tickets...Yeah, this is my thinking. The Hornet is the only canopy I'd be willing to buy new right now. A few hundred jumps down the road, I'll shell out for something fancy.Taking nominations for new screen name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Austin 0 #14 May 2, 2002 Hey Paul,I don't get Skydiving Mag, is there any chance you could email me a copy so i can see it??BTW, my Cobalt demo 170 will be on the way in around a week or so.Austin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #15 May 2, 2002 When it comes to changing only the main, I am a extremely strrong advocate for buying used.... there is a great number of medium sized canopies out there, and if your not too fat (like I am) then its easy to find an eleptical in the 120 to 150 range. Even stilettos 170s are somewhat easy to find...Unless you want to change your entire rig and get a good discount from a dealer, then by all mneans, look at used...RemsterMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #16 May 2, 2002 I jump pretty much to fly parachutes. I'd be happy doing clear and pulls from 14 grand all day and flying the hell out of my canopy. That is where the fun is at for me. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhale 0 #17 May 2, 2002 I'm with you there. There are several of us, when given the chance to fun jump, say 5,000ft please.It's all about the canopy!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #18 May 2, 2002 Rabbit at Spaceland once told me that anyone can freefall but it takes a real man to fly a high performance canopy. I got a kick out of that statement. Rhino Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #19 May 2, 2002 the skydive starts at pull time:)dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #20 May 2, 2002 That's what I'm talking about!!! YEAGH BABY!!!! Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookit 0 #21 May 2, 2002 Quotethe skydive starts at pull timeYou know it! If it weren't for how fun it is to fly a canopy I probably would not have stayed in the sport very long at all. Flying the canopy is what I daydream about all week at work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
