qualifying new canopy designs

[hobbes4star 0]

i think that everyone has got on a different tangent. This was a sales pitch i have no
problem with dan selling his product, welcome to American land of the free, but if you
don't like the responses made on this thread again i will remind you welcome to American
land of the free.
also in this sue happy land that we live in do you really think that manufactures are really
going to make a product that they know is unreliable, more over does anyone think that in
such a competitive market which is driven more by word of mouth than any other kind of
marketing that a manufacture would not go to the lengths to make not only a good
product but a great one. hello they are here to sell not lose sales.... i am sure that all
testing is strenuously done. does anyone disagree that no canopy manufacture wants
people saying that their canopy killed someone. i am sure that they all are doing everything
that can to make a great canopy. just my 0.02.
blues skies all.
why jump when you can fly

[sangiro 4]

Quote

welcome to American land of the free

With all due respect, that's a bit presumptuous. Just to prove the point, look at the winners of the photography competition:
Aleksandr Voronov form Moscow, Russia
Jeff Agard from Oxford, Massachusetts, USA
Josh Hill from Houston, Texas, USA
Raffaele Chierichetti from Cittiglio, Italy
Francis Bodan Jackson from Christchurch, New Zealand
Thomas Olson from Houston, Texas, USA
Jirka Sima from Velke Pritocno, Czech Republic
Remco de Borst from Rijswijk, Netherland
Jussi Mattila of Anjalankoski, Finland
This is not America, this is Dropzone.com.
Safe swoops
Sangiro

[grosfion 0]

This is all very interesting, it's only a shame that we are getting all the expert information about testing a canopy from one site. To be honest the post sounds to me more like a advertisement to impress people with hight-tech bla bla, than useful information. I did not understand a word what you were talking about, but I will try again after I have read your webpage.
Just one question: Is that true that the idea with the "ribs 4 lines from each side are substantially solid with no cross-ports (2-stage opening)" was there long ago before your company picked it up? And if so, why do you need so much research in this field?
I'm just curious ......
I like this forum...
blues
Marcus

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

To be honest the post sounds to me more like a advertisement to impress people with hight-tech bla bla, than useful information.

Ask yourself, would it sound like an ad if other canopy designers were in here sharing things about their process as well?
I wish they would...

[grosfion 0]

YES

[JJohnson 0]

Welcome to the internet.......home of the free!
JJ

[cloud9 0]

Quote

also in this sue happy land that we live in do you really think that manufactures are really
going to make a product that they know is unreliable,

Probably not.

Quote

more over does anyone think that in
such a competitive market which is driven more by word of mouth than any other kind of
marketing that a manufacture would not go to the lengths to make not only a good
product but a great one. hello

Manufacturers proove everyday that this is not true. Look at all the products skydiving or not that are recalled or are just plain junk. And you know why? Because we let them. Want proof? When the crossfire was having problems, even after Icarus admitted it was having problems you had people right here on this site that defended them to the end. In fact they still will. There are still people out there jumping the Nova and they will tell you its a great canopy. They don't really have to worry that much, put it out there if there's a problem they'll find out and then make the mods and they will still have a following.

[hobbes4star 0]

>With all due respect, that's a bit presumptuous. Just to prove the point, look at the winners of the photography competition:
I apologize, that was presumptuous I forget that we are global. My deepest apologies to everyone that is not in American and quoting jjonhson welcome to the internet land of the free…..
It was still and advertisement no matter if it was PD, Action Air, Rigging Innovations or Kmart, and yes I would still feel the same. just my 0.02
why jump when you can fly

[hobbes4star 0]

>When the crossfire was having problems, even after Icarus admitted it was having problems you had people right here on this site that defended them to the end
because they make great products.
i agree with everything that you are saying. you have to admit though I had never heard of Nova before i started reading this form, i think that if they had a great reputation i would have heard about them before i started reading this form. just my 0.02
why jump when you can fly

[ramon 0]

bwahahahah
sorry
had to.
ramon

[billvon 2,477]

>There are still people out there jumping the Nova and they will tell you its a
>great canopy.
I am still jumping my Nova once in a great while. It is _not_ a great canopy. Lands well in perfect conditions, but it's awful in turbulence, and it opens like a '93 Sabre.
-bill von

[cobaltdan 0]

"Do you know how many times the "picture" of the wind tunnel has been used in Icarus advertising? I do. Do you know how many times that wind tunnel has been used? I do.."
yes i do, that tunnel was designed, built and operated by an atair employee family member. if i was interested in bashing icarus i would explain what you were refering to...i am not.
"...rolling test rig.
With respect to "(This is a wind tunnel like technique... )
Come on folks! Everyone here on Sangiro's cyber world seems brighter than the average Joe..."
rolling test rigs are not "bs" as you feel. they are an invaluable tool for testing canopies or other aerodynamic bodies. interesting to note that EVERY new paraglider design must be tested on a rolling test rig for certification and even leading aerodynamic and aerospace companies i.e. aerovironment: paul macreedy (helios, solor challenger, gossamer) and burt rutan aircraft rely more on rolling test rigs than wind tunnels.
there was a comment made that someone did not understand the terminology i used to explain our test proceedures. i will be glad to further explain in laymans terms on or off line.
sincerely,
dan
atair

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

there was a comment made that someone did not understand the terminology i used to explain our test proceedures. i will be glad to further explain in laymans terms on or off line.

Explain it here, I for one am interested in hearing all about it.
-
Jim

[cobaltdan 0]

jim,
i will be off line for the next several days.
we are traveling to perform a series of military test jumps.
if you post a more specific question, i will be glad to try and answer on monday.
sincerely,
dan
atair

[kopelen 0]

Having read all of these posts, I have come to a glaring conclusion. Blatant comments because someone uses a term you endear not to understand, equals ignorance on your part. So for all those who don't understand the concept or the terms call or ask, or heaven forbid look it up!! the only thing in this sport more dangerous than a new jumper is an ignorant one!!! Its easier to slam someone than it is to make an informed decision. Go figure!!

[crazy 0]

You can't be serious. Don't you think that your canopy would fly better if it had been instrumented on a rolling test harness? or if the variance of the inertial position had been correlated to the 4 point riser load data?
BB
Come

[JJohnson 0]

Well said Kopelen.
Not being one to point fingers, but there does appear to be a few members whose sole purpose is to pick apart other's posts, find trivial descrepancies and bash the shit outta ideas they don't seem to agree with.....right or wrong.
Sometimes it seems that we are more focused on proving ourselves right, than actually finding the truth. More intent on impressing others with our consumate experience than trying to simply add to the collective "smart pool".
I agree with you, how someone says something is not quite as important as what they said. Truth is self evident. What is right will always shine through, despite poor phrasing or lack of proper terminology.
There is a great deal of knowledge in these forums and I enjoy learning and exchanging opinions and ideas. But there are times that we get a bit carried away as well. I am reminded of a saying by some famous dead person...who said:
Ignorance is forgivable and correctable...it is simply the lack of knowledge.
Stupidity, which can be defined as proceeding as if the required knowledge is present yet armed with nothing more than best intentions......is quite another matter and is quite unforgiving by nature. Stupidity kills.
It is in this fine spirit that I am now forming V.A.S. (Violence Against Stupidity). This organization will be pledged to wipe out stupidity, wherever it may hide. To terminate stupid people with extreme prejudice, so as to stop them before they reproduce and contaminate the rest of the human race. If you want to help this noble cause, then join now. Send $5.00 and a self addressed envelope to:...................I'm sorry was all of this in my out loud voice?
JJ
JJ

[rainman 0]

Just to add my 0.02 Euro's worth (or does '€' work for you as well):
I think it's great that manufacturers take the time to explain their philosophy and their production process and whatever else they wish to share ! Like someone already mentioned people on these boards strike me as smart enough to filter out the occasional bit of self-promotion. Given my own very limited knowledge of skydive gear manufacturing, I have to rely on others to point out glaring omissions (sp?) and 'untruths'. For as far as my choice of gear is concerned, let's just say that I don't take very kindly to being lied to, especially when it could potentially harm me.
Keep the information coming, and please everyone continue being critical!
Blue skies,
Ramon

• Quote