Expiry date for reserves

[steellex 0]

I was taught that a reserve lasts up to either 20 jumps or 6 years from date of manufacture, after which it should be changed. I have a Tempo 170 manufactured in 1995 with 0 jumps on it. If the statement holds true, I'll have to get another new reserve, but it does seem a waste of a good canopy. Any repercussions if I continue to jump with the 'expired' reserve?

[cockroach 0]

Post deleted by alan

[baygon 0]

Post deleted by alan

[skyman1 0]

I would just go to the manufacturer. He specifies clearly the expiry date. If you drop them an email they will reply to you.
My information is that reserves expire after 12 years. I would not rely on a reserve that is used for 20 high speed openings. So if you have an unused system, just ask the manufacturer.

[Remster 24]

Check with PISA.
I dont think PISA has a "serviceable time" on the Tempo. PD as on their PDRs, at which time, you need to send it to PD for an inspection.
Remster
Muff 914

[polarbear 1]

Yes, check with PISA. Different reserves have different lifespans.
The lifespans are there for a reason. Jumping past the lifespan puts you in the same category as jumping above the maximum weight/speed-"test jumper".

[grosfion 0]

Just ask a proper rigger or reserve packer he should be able to tell you if your reserve is in good condition and if you can still jump it.
I know some good rigger in Singapore they can help you...
blues

[riggerrob 558]

20 high speed deployments is a reasonable life for a reserve canopy.
Various manufacturers assign various "lives" to various components.
For example, after 8 years, Strong Enterprises requires all tandem gear to return to the factory for re-certification. After 8 years, the reserve cnaopy is usually in good shape, but the harness/container is faded, frayed and filthy. Strong does all repairs and updates and returns the rig with a large bill.
Airtec insists that Cypres batteries be replaced every 2 years. Cypri must do a pilgrimage to their birthplace when they are 4 years and 8 years old. Cypri retire when they reach their 12 th birthday.
Whoa! That sounded like religious dogma!
Various military users apply various lives. Shelf life is usually 10 to 15 years. The Canadian Army used to limit static-line canopies tot 100 jumps. The US Navy ties its ejection seat parachute repack cycle to aircraft maintenance schedules, ie. 2 year inspections or X number of flying hours.
For parachutes that the manufacturer has not specified a life, you have to make an educated guess based on wear patterns. For example, Butler Parachute systems refuses to repack most pilot emergency parachutes more than 20 years old.
Adventure sports Loft (in Perris, California) is reluctant to repack sport rigs more than 25 years old and rarely touches any parachute more than 30 years old. When Square One managed the loft, they rarely touched skydiving gear more than 10 years old. This because nylon deteriortaes rapidly in the California desert. Ten years of serious skydiving (300 jumps per year) reduced harness/containers to scrap after 10 years.
The other factor is obsolescence. For example, I really don't want to have anything to do with round reserves built during the acid mesh era; late 1970s to late 1980s. I also don't repack non-steerable reserves or round reserves without diapers. And if your pack-opening-bands are slack, expect to get laughed out of the lfot!
But this is the first time I have heard about a 6 year life.
When in doubt, ask the manufacturer.

[dmddave 0]

Damn, you always post such good info here. THANK YOU.

[billvon 2,400]

>Is the expiry date not under the bottom of the pilot chute top?
I think you're thinking of the repack date, not "reserve expiration."
-bill von

[billvon 2,400]

>I was taught that a reserve lasts up to either 20 jumps or 6 years from date of
>manufacture, after which it should be changed.
Depends entirely upon the manufacturer. A PD reserve, for example, can be used 25 times or repacked 40 times before it needs to be returned to PD for inspection, after which they may well send it back to you approved for another X repacks. I don't know what Pisa's rules are.
>I have a Tempo 170 manufactured in 1995 with 0 jumps on it. If the statement
> holds true, I'll have to get another new reserve, but it does seem a waste of a
> good canopy. Any repercussions if I continue to jump with the 'expired' reserve?
None at all if you can get a rigger to inspect and repack it and sign off on it. As long as they are not violating any manufacturer's rules (like the above PD limits) and the gear is in good shape they are quite likely to be willing to do it.
Here's a thought experiement for you riggers out there - someone comes in with a rig and two Raven III's. He's used both for mains ten times. He wants you to assemble and pack one of them as the rig's reserve. Is it legal to do so? (provided the rig/canopy is in good shape, all service bulletins are complied with etc.)
-bill von

[PhreeZone 15]

In reply to your question Bill... Yes... either can be used as the main or reserve. You just need to hook the right slider up to each canopy.
"Hey.. Its my camera, and my remote... I'll rewind if I want to!" ~ Goat #2

[stimpy 0]

isn't the guy asking the question (steellex) a rigger ?
shouldn't he know this stuff ?
what's happened to standards these days ...

[lummy 4]

IS that the only difference? and what are the differences in the slider?
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?

[steellex 0]

Like I said, I was taught that a reserve should be retired after 6 years from DOM, I just wanna clarify if there are any deviations to the rule. And based on the various replies I received, it looks like the rule of thumb I was taught does not apply.
It never hurts to ask when in doubt.

[cockroach 0]

Post deleted by alan

[polarbear 1]

There is no FAA regulation concerning this, other than that the manufacturer's instructions must be complied with. Therefore, it is up to the manufacturer to specify if the reserve could be jumped as a main. In the case of Ravens, no, I don't think it is legal. Ravens can be used as mains, but a Raven that has been jumped as a main ten times may not be used as a reserve. Precision allows that a reserve may be jumped ONCE as a main for "familiarization"...I think. I haven't read the owner's manual for a while.
PD does not allow jumping their reserves as mains...only their "demo" reserves may be used as mains.
Don't know about Tempos or other brands. I don't think Tempos have main bridle attachments. Glide Path International reserves, I think, do have attachments. I would guess they have similar rules to Precision. I think Strong Enterprises reserves also have main bridle attachments, but I don't know for sure.

[riggerrob 558]

Who started this silly rumor about a 6 year life on a reserve canopy?
In 18 years as a licensed rigger, I have never heard of a 6 year life on any parachute component.
Operational lives of parachute components are usually "on condition" unless the manufacturer specifies otherwise. As long as rigger inspects it and is willing to sign for its airworthiness, it can be returned to service.
I have never heard of PISA specifying component lives.

[crazy 0]

Steelex wrote:
> Like I said, I was taught that a reserve should be retired after 6 years from DOM.
So, who taught you this? Is it your rigger examiner? If so, i'd really like to know. In any case, please can you check with several manufacturers, or with other examiners of the federation, then talk to the guy who taught you this.
> It never hurts to ask when in doubt.
You're definitely right. However, given your professional responsibilities (you advertise on your webpage that you are a rigger) and your position at the SPA, this question on a public forum lets me puzzled.
When in doubt, ask to the manufacturer.
Come

[polarbear 1]

I sure as hell didn't start it, don't blame me. I never heard of it before this thread. As I said in my previous post, the manufacturers instructions must be complied with...whatever they say goes. If they don't specify a lifespan, there is none and it is up to the individual rigger.
I heard once that PISA reserves are good for 5 jumps...I haven't been a able to confirm that information. I guess I'll go look for an owner's manual.

[polarbear 1]

By the way, I went home and checked my Raven owners manual, and was able to confirm what I said in my erlier post. While a Raven can be used as a main or a reserve, if an individual canopy has been jumped as a main, it may not be used as a reserve. The exception is one "familiarization" jump is allowed.

[billvon 2,400]

>In reply to your question Bill... Yes... either can be used as the main or reserve.
Yep. Here's George's answer to the same question, posted on rec.skydiving several years ago:
--------------
The original question was:
"Is there anything inherently unsafe, illegal or immoral about using a
Raven II that has 300 jumps but is in otherwise good condition as a
reserve? Obviously, the Raven was used as a main. The reason I'm asking
is that I recently bought a new container. I took the Ravens out of the
old container and put them in the new one. I've been thinking about
setting the old container up as a backup rig, and one of the local
jumpers has a Raven II for sale. She took good care of it so I
personally would have no qualms about using it as a main or, based on
your input, as a reserve. So, what do you think?"
IMHO, the best answers were given (in no particular order) by:
1)Tim "A canopy that is TSO'D as a certified canopy can be used as a
certified canopy, regardless of the number of jumps as long as it is
deemed airworthy by a certified rigger...
2)kleggo "inspect it,if it passes ... jump with it..."
3)David S. Clarkson "...follow the manufacturer's instructions (It may
be used as one or the other [if FAA approved for use as a reserve] but
it is not to be used as a reserve if it has been intentionally jumped as
a main canopy. One familiarization jump is allowable prior to packing
for reserve use.)
Right, David, excellent observation. That comment in the Owner's
manual is intended to encourage our customers to exercise good common
sense in choosing which container to pack their Raven into... Notice it
says "not to be used"... does that mean it can be legally packed but not
legally deployed? (big troll here)
4)bill von "when's the last time a well-maintained F111 7-cell main just
"blew up?"
5)[email protected] "The guy who seals it has to determine its
airworthiness"
My response to the customer was:
When a Raven canopy leaves the factory as new, it is placarded to be
certified under the authority of the TSO process. What this means is,
the design has been tested to a certain standard, and the design of this
particular canopy is consistent with a similar canopy which has been
drop tested successfully.
The parallel scenario in general aviation would be a Cessna aircraft
which leaves the assembly line in Wichita is dispatched with an
airworthiness certificate.
A Raven Reserve is only certified to be airworthy 120 days at a time,
just as the Cessna undergoes an annual inspection before it is "in
license" and declared to be airworthy.
Your question to me would be like calling Cessna Aircraft Company to see
if your used airplane can pass the annual inspection. In the case of a
parachute, it is the Parachute Rigger's discression and responsibility
to declare airworthiness for a given canopy. There in no magic number of
jumps which would subjectively disqualify a canopy for use as a reserve,
on the basis of "number of jumps" only.
This is strictly a question of judgement.... both your judgement (as the
person putting the canopy on your back), and your rigger's judgement as
to the airworthiness of that particular canopy at this pack cycle.
Most people seem willing to jump any old rag as a main canopy but they
want their reserve to be a pristine virgin. An acceptable range of
reality may reside somewhere in between. If you were to ask me if I
would exit the aircraft with a 300 jump Raven packed in a single canopy
pilot's emergency rig, my answer would probably depend on how close the
aircraft fire was getting to the fuel tanks.
--George Galloway
-bill von

[billvon 2,400]

>In the case of Ravens, no, I don't think it is legal.
As long as a rigger signs off on it, it is legal. See above post by George Galloway.
>PD does not allow jumping their reserves as mains...only their "demo" reserves
>may be used as mains.
That's not due to any FAA or certification restriction, that's due to the fact that PD reserves do not have bridle attachement points. There's nothing wrong with jumping a PD reserve as a main if you don't mind losing your D-bag on every jump.
-bill von

[polarbear 1]

As I said, it is in the owners manual (pg. 8). In fact, this comment is made in your post, and George acknowledges it.
I guess the question is, if it is in the owners manual, is it "manufacturers instructions"? My thoughts are yes. I think the FAA would go with the documented manufacturers instructions.
If George says it's OK, he needs to change his owners manual.

[polarbear 1]

I went home and checked my PD reserve owners manual. I couldn't find any explicit statements, but I did find something that said "this parachute is designed as and intended to be used for a reserve only. It is not intended to be used to acrue a large amount of jumps".
I guess it comes back to, how would the FAA interpret it? Specifically, how would the very-likely-not-a-skydiver FAA inspector interpret it?
Personally, I would agree that assuming a parachute is in LIKE NEW condition (and, of course, that it is certified), then it would be OK to use it as a reserve. I would be very cautious doing this, however. I would demand to know the ENTIRE life history of the parachute, and it would have to pass a VERY thorough inspection before I would sign my name to it.