aad/cypress

[mnischalke 0]

This place is just like a vaccuum. Sucks you right in.
By the way, have you met Clay yet?
mike
A bucket of Jet A can heat an entire county if burned all at once.

[Skyrose7 0]

not formally. I believe someone told me to stay away from him after I posted the first time. I'm guessing this won't be surprising to you.
The mind is like a parachute--it works better when it is open. JUMP.

[skymedic 0]

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Do a lot of people jump w/out aad's?

I do....oh wait that was a base jump...never mind....
marc
"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape"

[weid14 0]

I couldn't resist.... was a long day at work (again)

[USPA 0]

Hi,
I know the cypres can fire higher than 750 feet, but never saw an official statement from ssk or airtec. Looked at their website, but couldn't find it either. Could you point me to it?

[skybytch 259]

Try here - http://www.pia.com/SSK/cypres/cyp13.htm
pull and flare,
lisa
--
Life is tough, but I'm tougher

[riggerrob 558]

Mr. USPA,
A Cypres can be fooled into firing higher than its normal activation altitude by body position.
The most likely scenario is that you tossed your main pilotchute lower than normal and your main was snivelling as you approached Cypres scaring altitude. If your snivelling main pulls you upright, then the reserve bottom wall and Cypres are exposed to faster than normal wind. Note: on most skydiving rigs, the brains of the Cypres are sewn to the bottom wall of the reserve container. The tiny air pressure sensor in the Cypres may read this as an altitude lower than what you eyeballs seeing. The other parameter - that must be met to scare the Cypres - is holding that unusual attitude for several seconds. It has something to do with the Cypres averaging the last few readings. No single altitude reading can scare a Cypres.
As for the question about why some experienced skydivers don't wear Cypri? I am a poor professional skydiver. All the tandem rigs have Cypri and the bulk of my jumps are tandems. My boss loaned me a Cypres for the Talon that I usually wear when doing PFF. But my second rig is an ancient Mirage that requires a 2-pin Cypres, and I refuse to spend the extra money for a 2-pin Cypres. Oh, that and the fact that I cannot find any written instructions on how to install a Cypres in a 1985 vintage Mirage.
That leaves two options: fairy godmother or sewing. I could wait for my fairy godmother to give me a new rig or I could finish sewing together the prototype 1-pin pop-top that is gathering dust in the corner of my loft.

[wildblue 4]

very good point alan, it usually amazes me too.
How about offering beer for the first person that knows how to adjust "0" on a Cypres? (you turn in on at one level, but where you're going to land is a few hundred feet higher)
Or maybe for who ever can tell you what the numbers that it stops on means? (during the power-on countdown)
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[mnischalke 0]

Leave your finger on the button after you make the fourth press. It continues with the self test and will say 30 (or 10 meters) above. you can adjust it up or down from that point by waiting until it goes 30 down, 60 up, 60 down, etc. release the button and you're done.
The pause around 6k is battery power, the second and third have no value to the skydiver.
what do I win again?
mike
A bucket of Jet A can heat an entire county if burned all at once.

[USPA 0]

I found it just after I posted.. :-) . Stupid though, should have thought of it myself, I knew a stable back to earth position would let it fire high and why. I also new deploying you main low, could activate the cypres also. I just never made the link to body position during deployment.. I feel stupid now.. :-(
And yup, forgot to sign,
Blue Ones
Paul Renting (NLD)

[wildblue 4]

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The pause around 6k is battery power, the second and third have no value to the skydiver.

I wonder how many people actually watch during this time, to see if any error codes are shown...
Poll time?
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[mnischalke 0]

Every time. WTF else do I have to do?
where's my beer?
mike
A bucket of Jet A can heat an entire county if burned all at once.

[alan 1]

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I don't mean to pick on you Andy or Skyrose7, but I continue to be amazed at how poorly most jumpers are educated about AADs and yet how much they are used and even relied on.

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How would I become educated about them if I did not ask???

You won't, but that is kinda my point. I was really addressing my frustration over an instructional system that allows a skydiver to progress to the point where they are making decisions about gear purchases and have not been adequately informed. But, you have to assume your share of the responsibility because it is you that is going to jump out of the airplane. From your posts, I think it is safe to assume you are a recent grad and maybe even have a new "A" license. Why did you wait until now to become curious about an AAD? Hasn't one been a part of your gear through your training? You state that since your gear came w/o one, you now have to buy one? How can you tell, you don't know enough about them to make an informed decision. Sure, your JM, I, S&TA, DZO, or just a mentor at your DZ should have taught you something like this before now, but hell, don't you hang around the DZ and talk to other jumpers? I don't mean to give you heat here, I'm just frustrated at the brand of "gas and go" skydivers we have been creating ever since USPA decided that skydiving was "Mainstream not Extreme". It was before your time, but you may ultimately pay the price for it......with your life. So, ask questions now. Lot's of them.....and Skyrose7, I'm not talking just to you, but to all of the other newer jumpers out there who are in your shoes. Search through this website, it contains a wealth of information in the form or articles written by trusted and reliable people in the sport........and it will be just a beginning.
So, you arrive at the DZ and do a gear check, turn your Cypres on and watch it count down to zero. You dirt dive with your friends and manifest. You get on the plane and climb to 1400', smoke fills the cabin and you hear the pilot telling everyone to get out NOW! Will the fact that you have a Cypres affect your emergency procedures? If so, how? If not, why not? Does your rig have an RSL? What is its' intended function? What is it designed to do/not do, as opposed to a Cypres?
Want to hear something really scary? For each one of the questions I asked above, I know of a skydiver who died because he/she made a jump and didn't know the answer. It only takes one jump.
I apologize if I have seemed a little rough on you......it is because I care.
alan

[Skyrose7 0]

That is quite a bit to think about. I realize that I am too uneducated about the sport for my own good. I finished student status when the season ended. I have not been jumping since then, and have devoted my time to doing things like this--asking questions, doing site searches, checking out products, and talking with my dz owner before any purchases. I do know the function of an aad, I was not aware that I needed to know the intricacies(spelling way off) of how it works. That will definately be something I look into. I know that it is mostly my fault for not asking questions when I had the chance, but have you ever been so overwhelmed with so much information that you decided to let it sink in first before you started asking those endless questions (which is the stage I am currently in). I do talk with people from my dz, but I did my training in basically three months. THey are a welcoming crowd, but I felt more comfortable asking the head honcho the safety questions. I didn't know the experience levels of anyone yet. And then we get back to--how will I ever find out if I don't ask. So, here I am.. I know there is a new mainstream issue that bothers experienced jumpers, but I jump because I love it, not because it is becoming popular--and (ask my whuffo's) I spend every extra minute trying to understand and learn new things about the safety precautions I must take to SAFELY enjoy this sport. I am probably making excuses here, but I felt compelled to respond. Thankyou for caring.
Mary
The mind is like a parachute--it works better when it is open. JUMP.

[MarkM 0]

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Sure, your JM, I, S&TA, DZO, or just a mentor at your DZ should have taught you something like this before now, but hell, don't you hang around the DZ and talk to other jumpers?

I think most instructors worry about their students doing stupid stuff like cutting away a good main or never cutting away a bad one rather than the specifics of AADs or RSLs.
It's also hard to get too attached to students and teach them everything under the sun because we have such a high dropout rate.

[wildblue 4]

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Every time. WTF else do I have to do?
where's my beer?

In my fridge. If I ever run into you somewhere, I'll pay up.
Alan started the following "Choose your own adventure" story:

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You get on the plane and climb to 1400', smoke fills the cabin and you hear the pilot telling everyone to get out NOW!
Will the fact that you have a Cypres affect your emergency procedures? If so, how? If not, why not?

No, it will not affect my emergency procedures. I don't rely on the Cypres to do anything for me. However, I *do* know that my Cypres-equipped butt can fall flat, dumb, and happy all the way to impact if I do nothing... we haven't passed through 1500' feet yet.

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Does your rig have an RSL? What is its' intended function? What is it designed to do/not do, as opposed to a Cypres?

[troll mode] I don't have a RSL on my rig, so I don't need to know what one does [/troll mode]
Did you know that "if" is the middle of the word "life"?

[skybytch 259]

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It's also hard to get too attached to students and teach them everything under the sun because we have such a high dropout rate.

That's acceptable for a student doing their first few levels/jumps, but once someone has 4 or 5 jumps imho it's time to assume that they'll keep it up. Even if you as instructors don't have time to teach them "everything under the sun", pointing your students in the right direction to study on their own is very easy to do and just might save one of their lives. Most new jumpers are hungry for information about their new passion.
How about a stack of skydiving magazines set out on the dz for anyone to look through? Does your dz sell Poynter's Parachuting - The Skydivers Handbook? I encouraged all of my students to buy and read that book; I even loaned out my copy occasionally. Encourage your students to hang around the dz after they jump and make a point of talking with them at the end of the day. Don't expect them to come to you with questions; often they assume you're either too busy or too important to bother during the day and too busy with your friends at the end of the day.
Above all, make them feel welcome on the dz and make them feel that they can always come to you with questions. Don't bullshit them; if you don't know the answer to one of their questions find out the answer with them - you just might learn something yourself too.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[MarkM 0]

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Even if you as instructors don't have time to teach them "everything under the sun", pointing your students in the right direction to study on their own is very easy to do and just might save one of their lives.

When I said "we" I might "as a student myself" not as an instructor. Even though I keep myself pretty well read, I don't generally give advice(unless it's in these forums, where the more experience ppl can correct me) to other students because I don't feel that's my place, just because I'm book smart doesn't mean I know jack about skydiving.
I do point people to this site and the fatality reports. I also own and recommend Poynter's book. I learned a drek-load of stuff from that thing myself.

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You get on the plane and climb to 1400', smoke fills the cabin and you hear the pilot telling everyone to get out NOW!
Will the fact that you have a Cypres affect your emergency procedures? If so, how? If not, why not?

It won't because:
1> I don't have the time in this situation to worry about it.
2> When I exit the plane I won't be anywhere near a vertical speed that would fire off the Cypres. I can pull normally.
I would seriously consider going straight for my reserve though. If I packed a nice mushy opening on my main it'd probably be best to deploy my reserve on exit since it'll give me more altitude to find a safe landing spot.

[wildblue 4]

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2> When I exit the plane I won't be anywhere near a vertical speed that would fire off the Cypres. I can pull normally

You could go head-down right out of the plane, and be doing 300 mph at impact, and your Cypres won't do a thing for you... I think that's what he was getting at. Now, do you know why? A Cypres doesn't "arm" itself until 1500 feet. Once you pass 1500' - it's an issue. And since we know that a Cypres can fire as high as 1000' under the right circumstances... if you're getting out at 1600, are you sure you want to try your main to save $50? a) if your main mals, you have no time to react b) if your main takes long enough to open, you could end up with 2 out pretty easy.
Go through the Cypres owner's manuel, learn what it is your trusting your life to. Should you shut it off if you're riding the plane down? Do you know how to tell the difference between a student cypres and an expert cypress? What's different between them? (in case you ever end up in a rig with a student cypres for some reason) When will a Cypres do nothing? How do you know if your batteries are almost dead? How does it actually work? Ok, so it "fires" ... what does that mean? How many people has it saved? How many has it killed? It's not a "set it and forget it" piece of equipment. You need to learn everything you can about it to a) decide if you really want one and b) understand how to use it, how not to use it, and how it may affect your emergency procedures.

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1> I don't have the time in this situation to worry about it.

This is why we plan ahead, expect every situation so we know what we're doing when something like this is presented. Just like your "decision altitude" - you always have it in mind, so when the time comes you don't have to think about it.
Did you know that "if" is the middle of the word "life"?

[Remster 24]

Wow.. you guys have real trust in your instruments! Between the errors from the CYPRES and the alti, who knows what will happen if I think its 1400 feet....
its pretty academic anyways.. 1.4K... reserve....
Remster
Muff 914

[Jessica 0]

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its pretty academic anyways.. 1.4K... reserve....

Yup, I was taught under 2000' pull silver. Isn't that the general rule of thumb, or am I off?
Pet me! I'm harmless and cute!

[wildblue 4]

The point alan started (and I"m kinda continuing) is that people don't know as much as they should about the devices they're using. Yes, for most people, getting out of the plane < 2000" they just go for their reserve, some people might try their main first without realizing that in this case, their cypres could hurt them.
I think the one instance alan was talking about, someone got out of the plane < 1500' and didn't do anything. Did they thought "well, my cypres will just fire" go through their head? Possibly, stranger things do and have happened.
I'm not saying trust your devices, I'm saying know when they can and do hurt you.
Did you know that "if" is the middle of the word "life"?

[MarkM 0]

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And since we know that a Cypres can fire as high as 1000' under the right circumstances... if you're getting out at 1600, are you sure you want to try your main to save $50? a) if your main mals, you have no time to react b) if your main takes long enough to open, you could end up with 2 out pretty easy.

If you launch out of the plane at 1600 and deploy main I really don't think you'd have a Cypres fire so long as your main normally opens at a decent speed. From the hop and pops I did once I got off the dope rope, I don't remembering losing more than a couple hundred feet by doing a clear and pull or watching others clear and pull.
My thoughts about going for the main at 1500 has nothing to do with saving 50 bucks, it's just I'd rather be under a bad main at 1200 feet with the option to cutaway and go to reserve than a bad reserve at 1300 feet with no options left.

[wildblue 4]

Wow.. we sure have bastardized this thread... good content at least, just a completely different direction from where it was originally going.
That's good, you've thought it through and decided on your course of action. When the time comes, you won't have to think about it, you just act. You've learned the facts, weighed them, and then made your personal choice.
Me personally - a bail out at 1600 ft and I'm going for my reserve. I have faith in my rigger and my equipment. And I'm not sure I want to try to get out of a plane that has something seriously wrong with it (no poised, controlled exits here) get relatively stable, pray my main opens quickly (at a sub-terminal speed), and if it opens with a problem - still have altitude to cut away, deploy reserve, and find a suitable landing area. I'm sure I could do it, I just don't want to try, you only get one chance.
There's not usually an absolute right or wrong answer in this sport. You must do what you feel is right, of course.
Did you know that "if" is the middle of the word "life"?

[Billbay2 0]

Al - Knew we'd hear from you on this one! (NO) mr. Bill