Reserve pad

[billvon 2,435]

>Such as freefly harness grips..
I don't consider that a good reason to use soft handles. A violent AFF has more unintentional body contact than a normal freefly; a big RW chunk has as much possibility of dislodging handles as several docked freeflyers. This problem has been with us for a long, long time. It's not new to freeflying.
Besides, if you have a hard handle and someone pulls it, you will have a high reserve opening. If someone tucks your soft reserve handle under your harness, and you need and can't find it, you're dead. I would rather be under a reserve at 8000 feet than unable to open one at 800.
-bill von

[billvon 2,435]

>What are blast handles?
I believe they were first used for ejection seats. They are handles that, if blown sideways by a blast of air (as during an ejection) will not come out. They will only allow a pull if it is directly downwards. They were adapted for use in sport gear with the thinking that, if it's good for ejection seats, it's good for skydiving - it could prevent premature deployments from getting knocked loose or blown by the wind.
Unfortunately, they caused a lot of fatalities. Some were modified to allow a pull from any direction, but modern D-ring handles replaced them.
-bill von

[Aviatrr 0]

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Besides, if you have a hard handle and someone pulls it, you will have a high reserve opening.

And quite possibly a shredded, uncontrollable reserve that will lead to an unsurvivable landing if that deployment occurs head down at 200mph.......or a broken neck or back, severely damaged spinal cord, etc..
We all understand both sides of the argument, and it's a personal choice....I've made mine, and I will stick with it because I feel it's the safest possible configuration for my type of jumping..
Mike

[alan 1]

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I believe that the reserve ripcord is part of the manufacturers' TSO on the reserve system, so you have to obtain the reserve handle/ripcord from the rig manufacturer.....but I may be wrong on that one.. Rob or Alan can answer that one better than I can..

Better??? Yes, the reserve handle is part of the TSO'd system and therefore has to be of a make/model approved by the manufacturer.
alan

[billvon 2,435]

>And quite possibly a shredded, uncontrollable reserve that will lead to an unsurvivable landing if that deployment
>occurs head down at 200mph.......or a broken neck or back, severely damaged spinal cord, etc..
I agree with that, but two points:
1) All that bad stuff is still preferable to hitting the ground with nothing out; and
2) Routinely exceeding the limits for your gear (weight, deployment speed) is asking for trouble to begin with.
-bill von

[freeflir29 0]

"Routinely exceeding the limits for your gear (weight, deployment speed) is asking for trouble to begin with."
So are you saying nobody should ever free fly?
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[Aviatrr 0]

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I agree with that, but two points:
1) All that bad stuff is still preferable to hitting the ground with nothing out; and
2) Routinely exceeding the limits for your gear (weight, deployment speed) is asking for trouble to begin with.

I definitely agree with your first point, but not your second.. I do not exceed the weight limits for my reserves, but on just about every jump I exceed the deployment speed limit.. I exceed the speed(and right at max recommended exit weight) for my main, too.. Does that mean that I intend to deploy either of them above their speed limits? No way.. I've had a reserve opening at around 120mph, and it hurt......I sure as hell don't want one at over 150 knots..
Mike

[Jimbo 0]

Bill said:

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2) Routinely exceeding the limits for your gear (weight, deployment speed) is asking for trouble to begin with.

Then Aviatrr said:

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I definitely agree with your first point, but not your second.. I do not exceed the weight limits for my reserves, but on just about every jump I exceed the deployment speed limit.. I exceed the speed(and right at max recommended exit weight) for my main, too.. Does that mean that I intend to deploy either of them above their speed limits? No way.. I've had a reserve opening at around 120mph, and it hurt......I sure as hell don't want one at over 150 knots..

But Bill's point holds true no matter how _you_ skydive. Exceeding the weight and speed limits on your gear is asking for trouble. There's no two ways about it. You're more likely to explode a main if you're over the max weight or if you deploy at an insane speed. You're more likely to die if you try that with a reserve. Stay within in the limits and you've significantly increased the chance that your gear will perform as expected and that you'll get to make another jump.

[skymedic 0]

So what you are saying jimbo is we are not to Freefly????? that is fucked up....
marc
"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape"

[apoil 0]

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So what you are saying jimbo is we are not to Freefly????? that is fucked up....

sounds like they are saying that freeflying is asking for trouble.
I don't have a problem with that.
Whuffos would say jumping out of a plane in the first place is asking for trouble.
They are right. Someone who never jumps will never have a low cutaway from a spinning mal.
Know the risks, and only undertake what you are comfortable with.

[billvon 2,435]

>I definitely agree with your first point, but not your second.. I do not exceed the weight limits for my reserves,
>but on just about every jump I exceed the deployment speed limit..
Well, you could always get a Racer, one of the few rigs certified to standard category C23b.(as opposed to most other C23b rigs which are certified to low speed only.) The reserve is the problem. PD has been talking about a high speed reserve, but I don't know if it will sell - would you buy a PD126 that packed up like a 170 sq ft canopy?
As to exceeding the speed limit, keep in mind that you have up to 150 kts on most rig/canopy combinations, and that's 170mph. If you exceed that, and have an inadvertant deployment, well, you're a test jumper. It may work, it may not.
-bill von

[billvon 2,435]

>So what you are saying jimbo is we are not to Freefly?????
No, just not to exceed the limits of your gear. Most rigs/reserves are certified to 150kts, which is around 170mph. Do whatever you have to do to keep your speed under that limit, and you will be a lot more likely to survive a premature deployment.
>that is fucked up....
Well, it may be, but here's a quote directly from John LeBlanc of PD:
"Do not exceed the operational speed or weight limits of your parachute system. Never deploy in an attitude that your equipment was not designed for. Check with the manufacturer of your harness/container system and parachute if you have any questions regarding their operational limitations."
-bill von

[Aviatrr 0]

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But Bill's point holds true no matter how _you_ skydive. Exceeding the weight and speed limits on your gear is asking for trouble. There's no two ways about it. You're more likely to explode a main if you're over the max weight or if you deploy at an insane speed. You're more likely to die if you try that with a reserve. Stay within in the limits and you've significantly increased the chance that your gear will perform as expected and that you'll get to make another jump.

If that's the way you choose to skydive, that's fine - it's your choice....but I am not going to limit how I fly by the 150kt speed limit on my reserve, because I have no intention of deploying it at or above that speed.. I average over 150kt head down.. Hell, late divers on an RW big way can exceed that 150kt speed limit! Are you saying you will never exceed that speed?
If you want to talk about staying within limits for your MAIN.....well, now your limited to 130kts on most mains.. I hope you don't ever want to freefly or be a late diver..
Mike

[Aviatrr 0]

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The reserve is the problem. PD has been talking about a high speed reserve, but I don't know if it will sell - would you buy a PD126 that packed up like a 170 sq ft canopy?

For a reserve that was significantly stronger, and built for 200+mph deployments....you bet! I don't care about fashion - if I have a safe, functional rig with a reserve container three times the size of the main container, so be it....I don't care how it looks, just how it works..
Mike

[billvon 2,435]

>If that's the way you choose to skydive, that's fine - it's your choice....but I am not going to limit how I fly by the
>150kt speed limit on my reserve, because I have no intention of deploying it at or above that speed.. I average over 150kt head down
There's no law that says you can't do that, but you are now risking your life on your reserve _not_ accidentally opening. If you are willing to risk your life in that way, that's fine - but realize that it _is_ a risk, and you've consciously decided to take it.
>Hell, late divers on an RW big way can exceed that 150kt speed limit! Are you saying you will never exceed that speed?
I've been last out of the far left trail on a 120 way, and last out of the lead plane on a 112 way. On those two jumps I didn't exceed 160mph.
>If you want to talk about staying within limits for your MAIN.....well, now your limited to 130kts on most mains..
>I hope you don't ever want to freefly or be a late diver..
Well, as I said, I _am_ a late diver, and have managed to not exceed the limits. If you freefly, you can adjust your flying/suit until you don't exceed that speed as well. If you want to fly that speed anyway for whatever reason, that's fine - but you are taking an additional risk, the risk that one of about a dozen bits on your rig could fail and kill you.
-bill von

[freeflir29 0]

"If you want to fly that speed anyway for whatever reason, that's fine - but you are taking an additional risk, the risk that one of about a dozen bits on your rig could fail and kill you."
Oh well......Hope PD comes out with that "High Speed Reserve" before I blow mine up some day. Lord knows I exceed 170 MPH Head Down. In fact...I doubt I could fly any slower than that. Yes I do wear pretty baggy clothes....
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[Jimbo 0]

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So what you are saying jimbo is we are not to Freefly????? that is fucked up....

Uh. No. What I'm saying is everyone needs to understand the risk. What I said was exactly this:

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Stay within in the limits and you've significantly increased the chance that your gear will perform as expected and that you'll get to make another jump.

I'm not suggesting that you don't freefly. I'm not suggesting that you stop enjoying a skydive because you're too busy watching the speedometer. If you read into that that you can't freefly then so be it, but please understand that it is simply a statement about risk, nothing more. I don't think that's too fucked up.
That said, it's apparent that the manufacturers also understand this new breed of skydiving. For roughly the last year PD has been bragging in their ads that their reserves are tested well beyond the current requirements, does this mean that they'll hold up? Who knows? PD probably does, but I doubt they'll say so publically. My feeling is that we'll see new or updated requirements for the reserve systems in the next few years.