Comments from a Tandem Customer... Not good.

[tdog 0]

I was at a family member's home and her friend was there. Of course skydiving came up, it always does.

The friend, who is a recreational pilot and knows a lot about aviation, said nothing bad things of her skydiving experience. It was at a California DZ starting with "H". (Kind of masked the name so future searches don't hit this thread, it is not meant to be a bash on any one DZ, but I thought it mattered to show it was not a crappy DZ either).

She kept saying terrible things about skydiving:

1) The jump suits were so dirty and smelly, that her husband got sick on the aircraft ride up from the body odor smell, he said it was so bad he could smell it under canopy. They flew to the airport in their own aircraft, so they know about flying, and they said they smelled it prior to meeting their instructor.

2) The instructor did not relate to them.

3) One of them had line twists that resulted in a reserve ride, but the instructor did not spend any time with them explaining what happened, why it happened, or anything.

All of these things the instructor was in control of (even the smelly jumpsuit they could have washed).

Just a reminder to us instructors, that (some of) our customers expect Ritz Carlton type experiences, not expensive hippie beach bum experiences... And these people, who own a very expensive aircraft, could have been lucrative repeat customers and told their friends positive things...

[rhys 0]

Thats what you get when you deal with amateures!

Clean jumpsuits (if needed), clean plane, professional staff and a friendly and informative dimeanour.

that is how it should be done.

Many DZ's and TM's are too busy being cool cunts to give a shit about thier customer.

Not me!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[airtwardo 7]

ever take a blacklight and shine it in some of the student helments?

whats a few lice, the memory of the skydive lasts forever!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[feuergnom 22]

eeewwwww gross


(we really need a barfing icon in here...)

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[peek 20]

Quote

... said bad things of her skydiving experience ...

None of this is a surprise to me. Have you read the reviews in the dz.com DZ area lately?

The thing that is really a shame about this is that the sport of skydiving had a chance to enlighten a fellow aviator (aircraft pilot) about skydiving, and they failed miserably.

[riggerrob 598]

Some one should tell that DZO to "get with the 1990s.!"

WE moved from the hippie beach bum era a long time ago. Now tandem customers expect to be treated the same way they are treated by golf pros, yoga gurus,

[jasonRose 0]

LOL...
Every time I get ready to take up a new passenger I remember what John Mitchell said to me when I was getting my rating. "Take the time to engage every one of your passengers, the two minutes it takes to engage them can change the entire experience of their first jump."

Good customer service is not a innate quality everyone posses however it is something that can be taught or scripted. For those of you TM that just want to haul meat, make some coin and could care less about customer service you should consider this.. If you provide excellent customer service you are likely to get a good tip in return.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[Wharewaka 0]

Stuff like that comes down to management. A lot of DZ managers just think staff should act always professional and be a clown and all that without any guidance or "training".

Some guys don't have sensitive noses. If it's a company policy that you as an instructor have to wash your jumpsuit now and then, it might not happen that they smell bad.

One becomes a product of the environment eventually and if you never been in a good environment you might never had a good role model. Without a clear company policy, guys might do mistakes without meaning to. Or just use the lack of a policy to act as they want.

If a DZ was run more like other businesses service would improve?

[jclalor 12]

***

Quote

I was at a family member's home and her friend was there. Of course skydiving came up, it always does.

The friend, who is a recreational pilot and knows a lot about aviation, said nothing bad things of her skydiving experience. It was at a California DZ starting with "H". (Kind of masked the name so future searches don't hit this thread, it is not meant to be a bash on any one DZ, but I thought it mattered to show it was not a crappy DZ either).

She kept saying terrible things about skydiving:

1) The jump suits were so dirty and smelly, that her husband got sick on the aircraft ride up from the body odor smell, he said it was so bad he could smell it under canopy. They flew to the airport in their own aircraft, so they know about flying, and they said they smelled it prior to meeting their instructor.

2) The instructor did not relate to them.

3) One of them had line twists that resulted in a reserve ride, but the instructor did not spend any time with them explaining what happened, why it happened, or anything.

All of these things the instructor was in control of (even the smelly jumpsuit they could have washed).

Just a reminder to us instructors, that (some of) our customers expect Ritz Carlton type experiences, not expensive hippie beach bum experiences... And these people, who own a very expensive aircraft, could have been lucrative repeat customers and told their friends positive things...

Wow. I jump at H. every weekend, and while I can't say every tandem is 100% satisfied, the vast majority are. I will pass this post on to the DZO. I really think his experience is the exception and not the rule.

Just curious, but when a TI chops, is it common to give a detailed desription to the student or just kind of brush it off, like a reserve ride is all in a days work?

[tdog 0]

Quote

Just curious, but when a TI chops, is it common to give a detailed description to the student or just kind of brush it off, like a reserve ride is all in a days work?

I think there is a fine line. You have already told the student you have a "backup", "reserve" or "emergency backup". When you use that, something clearly happened "not right". I know most TI's express excitement and "normalcy" to students when the reserve is used... But maybe it is important to have a quick face to face with the student allowing them to ask questions and express any concerns???? Touchy one.

[peek 20]

Quote

But maybe it is important to have a quick face to face with the student allowing them to ask questions and express any concerns?

I would think so. And at that point it would be good to know that the instructor and DZ have done everything they can to avoid malfunctions, like maintenance, packing, etc.

If anyone feels uncomfortable talking to a student who has just experienced a malfunction, they might consider asking themselves and the rest of the DZ/staff why.

[skymama 35]

Quote

whats a few lice, the memory of the skydive lasts forever!

Ew! in the very least, it sounds like all dz's should have a can of Lysol and a bottle of Febreeze to use on the helmets and jumpsuits.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

whats a few lice, the memory of the skydive lasts forever!

Ew! in the very least, it sounds like all dz's should have a can of Lysol and a bottle of Febreeze to use on the helmets and jumpsuits.

Yeah, we may need to re-think 'the speech'...even BOWLERS get that quick shot of shoe stuff before the next 'renter'.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[tombuch 0]

Quote

I know most TI's express excitement and "normalcy" to students when the reserve is used... But maybe it is important to have a quick face to face with the student allowing them to ask questions and express any concerns???? Touchy one.

I don't think of it as a touchy one at all.

We already brief the student on emergency procedures as required by (105.45(a)(2), so they should know about the back-up plan in advance. Then, when it happens they almost always know something wasn't right. It's not hard to spend a few minutes back on the ground and explain what actually went wrong, how it was handled, and how we learn from the experience to make our sport safer. It only takes a couple of minutes to pull out another rig and show the components that failed, and then show the emergency handles and how we responded. For many students, that stuff can be fascinating, and they will have questions. We should embrace that moment as another opportunity to teach.

Beginners often think skydiving is a crazy sport that they could never master. It's important on every training jump to help our students understand the sport is accessible, and that they too can master it. That's a big part of our job as instructors. Most people who think about malfunctions and emergencies wonder if they have the ability (skill and psychological focus) to handle a problem, so when there is a problem we should use it as a "teachable moment" to show the application of those skills.

Even if a tandem instructor doesn't care about teaching, we need to recognize that every student is going to leave the drop zone with a story that will be repeated over and over for many years to come. It's essential that we help frame that story so it helps our sport. When a student has a malfunction he can leave with a narrative that says skydivers are crazy and he almost died, or a narrative that says skydivers really have their act together and focus on safety and personal responsibility. We are in control of that narrative and the story that will be repeated...lets help the student to get it right, every time.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[loltron 0]

Oh no!

I work here, and one of the things that we try to get right 100% of the time is the service end, it's the easiest to get right and the most important (besides safety) to the customer.

Pleasing everyone who walks through the door is the goal, but its impossible. We do our best and we genuinely do care.

As far as the jumpsuits, that disgusting. We wash them every week or two, but you get one unhygienic AFF student wearing the suit around for a few hours stinking it up and it doesn't matter how often you wash them.

In regards to reserve rides, everyones position is different. Ours is that it is business as usual and nothing to worry about. It's easy for people to freak out and we want them to think about how much fun they had rather than how close they 'think' they came to dying. We brush it off with our students, others may do something different.

And we try, oh how we try, to make sure our instructors give our students the best service in the industry. We've 86'd more instructors than I can count for not providing the right kind of experience, from lewd comments that are business as usual other places, to just not giving a shit about the 'screaming pillow' in front of them. It's easy for instructors to forget that these people paid over a thousand dollars in some cases, more than I spent on my car, for this experience. All it takes is a smile and some small talk.

Like I said, we try to get it right 100% of the time, and when we don't we try to make it right. If you would be so kind as to PM their info I'll see if we can't get it right the second time.

Thanks a bunch!!

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

We already brief the student on emergency procedures as required by (105.45(a)(2),

You know how many peoples minds you just blew with that? I'd venture 1 in 5 TI's has never read that section of the FAR's. Possibly 1 in 10 DZO's don't know of the Tandem Student requirements contained within.....

It's a sad thing.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

Quote

We already brief the student on emergency procedures as required by (105.45(a)(2),

You know how many peoples minds you just blew with that? I'd venture 1 in 5 TI's has never read that section of the FAR's. Possibly 1 in 10 DZO's don't know of the Tandem Student requirements contained within.....

It's a sad thing.

87.2% of all statistic are made up on the spot.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

We already brief the student on emergency procedures as required by (105.45(a)(2),

You know how many peoples minds you just blew with that? I'd venture 1 in 5 TI's has never read that section of the FAR's. Possibly 1 in 10 DZO's don't know of the Tandem Student requirements contained within.....

It's a sad thing.

87.2% of all statistic are made up on the spot.

...and the remaining 55.3% and based on factual theory.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[diablopilot 2]

True, however I've talked to a LOT of Ti's..... and more than a few DZO's....

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[tdog 0]

Quote

True, however I've talked to a LOT of Ti's..... and more than a few DZO's....

And to get back on topic... The more I think about it, the more I value this "wuffo's" comments that I used to start this thread.

I did my first tandem 7 years prior to AFF, and I remember a few things about it. One of the things I remember most - the jump suit.... Seriously, that and a few things the TI said in the plane ride up and a few things he said under canopy.... Rest is now just a blur of memories from long ago.

Clothing for many is highly personal and highly fashionable... I almost want to say - if I had a DZ in my ownership, every jump suit would be washed after every customer jump - no different than the sheets on a hotel bed.... (Worst case, after a day of heavy use) They don't have to be expensive jumpsuits, just clean ones, in good repair... That would make an impression with customers... A very positive impression. No one likes dirty clothes worn by other people...

[stratostar 5]

Quote

If you would be so kind as to PM their info I'll see if we can't get it right the second time.

You were offered this above from the DZ, are you going to follow through and get the offer in front of your friends who were not happy, I mean that is hell of deal their being offered.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[tdog 0]

Quote

Quote

If you would be so kind as to PM their info I'll see if we can't get it right the second time.

You were offered this above from the DZ, are you going to follow through and get the offer in front of your friends who were not happy, I mean that is hell of deal their being offered.

This was not a "bitch" to any one dz. It was a comment so we all could learn. If I wanted to "make it right the second time', I would have called the DZ.



These comments came from friends of friends, who jumped "a few years ago", on a "vacation", who have since moved even farther away. Too little too late to make it right the second time.

[jclalor 12]

.



***These comments came from friends of friends, who jumped "a few years ago", on a "vacation", who have since moved even farther away. Too little too late to make it right the second time.

[tdog 0]

In the first post, I almost did not even mention the dz, but when I did, I only did it to show these things happen at well known dzs, and I did not even say the name but masked it so you would have to dig to find it.

I appreciate the dz is under new ownership, and that might be a great thing.

I have traveled to many dzs, and now that I am "thinking back to what I have seen", dirty torn stained jumpsuits are found at many dzs.

If I thought this was a single dz issue I would have just emailed the dz. I was hoping to make multiple TIs and AFFIs think about their home dzs.

[robblack31 0]

I am curious to know how you get tips. I engage all my students and provide first class customer service. However, I rarely get a tip. Maybe 1 in every 10 to 15 tandems. My DZ forbids any sort of polite signs about tips and nobody ever mentions tips to the students.

Here is my theory. A students pays roughly $200 for a tandem. They probably think that an instructor would get at least $50 of that. (If any of you are getting $50 per tandem, I envy you) The student thinks "Wow, these guys must make $500 or more a day, no need to tip these rich guys with dream jobs."

Personally, I tip everybody that is in a service industry and so it is kind of frustrating that the generosity is not returned. I don't work for tips, I just do a good job because it is the right thing to do. But I won't lie, tips would be nice.