Did anyone just see that baby get taken into the tunnel at AirKix on Dermott O'Leary's breakfast show?

[Newbie 0]

I don't care how cool people think that looks, i think it's going to get you, tunnels and basically skydivers nothing but negative publicity to be perfectly honest.

I'm sure she loves it, but she was half asleep! Why did you guys think this was a good idea? I think Dermott's reaction - as a whuffo - summarised what most people will have got out of that publicity stunt. I know i was cringing myself when i saw it, initially having been quite excited to see it when i saw a preview clip earlier this morning.

Not all publicity is good publicity.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[andrewlovemore 0]

Hi there

I am Eve's Father, yes father of the 2 year old who flew in the tunnel this morning on Morning Glory, Channel 4.
I would just like to mention that Eve has flown in Airkix twice, prior to this morning, and loved it. We have plenty of pictures with happy smiles etc, which anyone who watched the end of the show would have seen. We were up at 4am this morning and she was a little tired and as any parent will know, kids will always play up when you least expect it. It wasn't the tunnel she was unhappy about it was the pressure of live TV. I know my daughter and trust me she is fine, 3 mins before we were due to go live she decided to have a tantrum about not wanting to put the goggles on. Are you suggesting that we dont be adventurous with promoting tunnel just in case something goes wrong? I dont think the presenter did me any favours in the good father category, but then would that be good TV?
Personally i think any advertising is good advertising Airkix in Milton Keynes rocks! One two year old's tantrum is not going to stop people flying there.

[freekflyguy 0]

Is business that bad at Airkix that they have to promote it by putting a 2 year old in?

I have 3 children aged 10, 7 and 19 months and I would not think of putting them in the tunnel at that age. I will however be taking the two oldest to a tunnel in the near future.

Im not questioning your parenting skills, just giving my opinion.

I dont know they will be putting birds in Airkix next

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

All day I've been trying to find out how old this 'baby' was you were talking about. Spent a good deal of time google searching since no one had responded.

Are you kidding? 2 years old? Do you KNOW any 2 year olds? You would obviously be suprised to understand their level of comprehension. Our daughter did her first flights when she was 2 and we were working at the portable tunnel in Louisiana.. there is only so many times you can say no when they are begging. It was a wonderful experience.. she's now almost 12 and she flies with us in a family group and with our friends when they come on out. She's had her picture in a couple of public venues, including one WFFC handbook that I was particularly proud of. She has flown in I guess 5 VWTs now.. and we certainly didn't harm her in any way.. she loves it.

I have seen kids this young who did not want any part of it.. others who weren't phased...and others who seemed destined to fly...... don't pass judgement.. and 2 by the way is NOT a baby anymore.. definitely a toddler and definitely not too young!

In fact.. on Monday our Photo of the Week will feature an adorable 2 year old at Flyaway Las Vegas, the Manager's daughter. She's adorable in her pink leapord print one piece suit.. and totally having fun with her daddy.

Besides.. they've been putting kids in tunnels for over 20 years.. it's not the first time nor will it be the last.

[rehmwa 2]

I gotta agree with Dawn.

A 'moonwalk' ride is more dangerous -
1 - nobody in there,
2 - kids jumping around and landing on each other.

contrast a tunnel:
1 - they turn down the speed
2 - there's an attendant who doesn't ever let go of the kid until they show control
3 - solo at first

similar thrill for a little one and a much more controlled and supervised environment

edit: My 10 year old got 20 minutes last year and I have her planned for 30 this year's camp.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Newbie 0]

Quote

All day I've been trying to find out how old this 'baby' was you were talking about. Spent a good deal of time google searching since no one had responded.

Are you kidding? 2 years old? Do you KNOW any 2 year olds? You would obviously be suprised to understand their level of comprehension. Our daughter did her first flights when she was 2 and we were working at the portable tunnel in Louisiana.. there is only so many times you can say no when they are begging. It was a wonderful experience.. she's now almost 12 and she flies with us in a family group and with our friends when they come on out. She's had her picture in a couple of public venues, including one WFFC handbook that I was particularly proud of. She has flown in I guess 5 VWTs now.. and we certainly didn't harm her in any way.. she loves it.

I have seen kids this young who did not want any part of it.. others who weren't phased...and others who seemed destined to fly...... don't pass judgement.. and 2 by the way is NOT a baby anymore.. definitely a toddler and definitely not too young!

In fact.. on Monday our Photo of the Week will feature an adorable 2 year old at Flyaway Las Vegas, the Manager's daughter. She's adorable in her pink leapord print one piece suit.. and totally having fun with her daddy.

Besides.. they've been putting kids in tunnels for over 20 years.. it's not the first time nor will it be the last.

Sorry, you missed the entire point of my post. I don't know Andrew, but he came across as a great guy and father, i'm not knocking him.
I also don't think there is anything wrong with properly supervising a young child in the tunnel at all. I just think that it *may* have given a negative impression to the whuffo populationof skydivers and/or tunnels, because they wouldn't have understood that, although the child was just kicking up a bit of fuss because she was tired - to them it would have appeared she was scared (it didn't help the presenter of the show said exactly that - "Oh no, she seem's scared" or something to that effect) and appeared to not want to do something, and was being forced into a weird and - to their eyes - dangerous, loud, hostile environment. As Andrew said, she was just tired and kicking up a tantrum, i can appreciate that, and again, i am not knocking his parenting skills - he knows his own child, i'm sure.

I've never been in front of a live tv camera so i can't imagine the pressure, so take what i say with a grain of salt, but i think it just potentially could have cast a bad light on skydivers as "unnecessary risk takers". I think that sometimes we are too concentrated on "publicity for publicity's sake" and not on the adverse effect it might have if what we do to garner the publicity goes wrong. You can draw a comparison with a demo where someone swoops, misjudges and ends up colliding with a spectator or hooking in.

I know putting a kid in a tunnel isn't something terrible. Putting them unsupervised in a bumper car is properly worse. The general Joe Public sat at home watching it, seeing tunnels, and perhaps a skydiver for the first time, has nothing to guage this against however and that was the audience for this show.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[weedstoodey 0]

Although the tunnel environment, should allow even the tiniest baby to fly!... Do we not need to question why we want to put such youngsters in?

From what i can see, its almost become a competition, did you see 3 yr old fly at .. now did you see 2yr old in..itll soon be.. did you see that new born flying at....!

Taking younger and younger "flyers" only increases the tunnels client pool. So of course they will be happy to meet demand. AS people see younger children, and the advertising/ promotion sells this further, todays parents, always desperate to "do there best for there kids and in this "keep up with the jones world" assume its part of this mad trend to introduce children to what ever "new" experience.

Mothers are inundated to take there little ones to the next..fad., you can see it now, mothers and babies tunnel sessions, just like the "dunk your newborn...!! swimming sessions!!)

There is also, this trend, with children almost becoming a comodity, threre is the posibilty of how cool am i is related to how cool is my child..

All i ask is as a parent to ask WHY. At those ages its unlikely they will ever remember the experience, unless it was so traumatic and then it will be with them forever!. This being the case, who was the experience really for.. What was it trying to fulfil?

So why not wait, until they you can honestly say they make there own decision to go in.

So they have wonderful flying skills at 2.or 3 . again i ask what good is this for anyone. The tunnel is NOT a very sociable environment for children and there are many many other (and not so expensive) options to expolore first, Including sports and past times that they perphaps will be able to enjoy day in and day out and share with friends.

Im not saying a baby, or very young child wont enjoy this experience, but call me old fashioned, wouldnt they enjoy being cuddled or whatever, or you getting them off the stablizers on their bike,or whatever, just as much!?

Kids in the tunnel, great, and much needed income for tunnels, but surely its about common sense. It needs to be kids enjoying the experience themselves and to able understand there exprience.I would suggest 4 or 5 must be a minimum sort of age?

Otherwise the reason for them being there has to be questioned. If its just to advertise, or sensationalise, or under the premise of subjecting our children to as many experiences as possible, just because we can then its not a good trend.



Ps .. yep my youngest son has tunnel time, but hes 13 ...

pss please i am not doubting this parents very very best intentions for his child, and ive not seen the footage, im just trying to put an overview on the whole idea of "flying" younger and younger children.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

My philosophy has always been.. If the earplugs FIT and there's a helmet that fits too.. then they are in... no matter the age, I'm not aware that before SVO there WAS an age limit at tunnels. Jumping around on the net in air is alot of fun for kids... specially with mom & dad. (course now that we have tunnels where earplugs aren't required then that is even less of an issue now)

Why WOULDN'T you want your children to fly???? What kind of parent WOULD WANT to withold this experience from an interested child? They should learn to fly about the same time they learn to walk.. there is no reason to wait. Why should they? It's obvious to those of us who DO NOT think of tunnelflying as an extension of skydiving why we would want to do this. I'll say it again.. it's NOT an extreme sport.. its NOT a division of skydiving.. it's a way of life.. a way to health and fitness in the mind and body. There is no reason to withold such a thing from children.

If I could've started my daughter earlier.. I would have.. but we had never heard of this before she was 2.

I don't recall seeing any kinda of call for babies and toddlers in the tunnels.. so everyone should really stop blaming the tunnels... I mean if you refused my service because I wanted to fly my kid, I would simply go somewhere else. Why should they lose the business??? Now I can understand that most of these newer tunnels have not had the experience of flying alot of little kids.. but I can always go to a Flyaway where they've had 20 years or more experience doing just that.

Why shouldn't toddlers learn to fly... can't think of one good reason unless mom & dad gotta pay for every minute and can't afford to. But I've also never been in a place that charged alot for toddler airspeeds.. you can't very well charge $600 per hour for 45 mph wind now can you? I mean it's about 25 bucks an hour for an electric motor and far less on deisel.

Flying is NOT a fad... it started in 1964.. became mainstream in the early 80's... taken to the next level in the late 90's and still going strong. No one who flys should be made to feel like it's a fad, mothers.. it's NOT a fad to fly your children.. it's been done for a LONG LONG time.

I'm fairly certain that the YOUNGEST flyer I know of was in the 12 month range. And I have known of 2 and 3 year olds who could fly around the tunnel all on their own merrit. There is no reason they cannot learn to fly on their own.. the wind speed is proportionate to their bodies and they learn all sorts of procedures.. this one is simply balance and they have mastered it with sitting up, rolling over and walking.. no reason to hold them back!!!!

Will they remember it??? You could ask my daughter if she remembers her flights. In fact.. that's about ALL she remembers of her earlier years... tunnels and flying and mommy & daddy flying with her.

Quote

So why not wait, until they you can honestly say they make there own decision to go in.

Wow.. this is question that REALLY got to me.
Right back at you.. why not make them wait until they can DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES to talk, read, spell, tie their shoes, wipe their butts, be nice, have manners etc.. why do any of that.. perhaps they won't want such a thing for themselves.... after all we know plenty of illiterate people in this world right?

No.. the answer is no.. you give your children the BEST that you know... you give them everything you can.. teach them everything you know so that they can have the best start in this world possible.
If you know how to fly and you don't teach your children.. I have to wonder about you... For most of us it has changed our lives for the better, and why in the world would you want to keep that freedom, that wonderful experience, the knowledge and self empowerment from them?

If you think these experiences are lost on children, then.. I feel sorry for you. Children have been underestimated for a very long time.. it really should stop. Flying is a way of life.. why would you make them wait? It's not dangerous, it's not skydiving, there is NOTHING to worry about....

WHY WOULDN"T YOU FLY YOUR KIDS???

the only GOOD answer to that is because THEY DON"T WANT TO FLY!

[Newbie 0]

Quote

WHY WOULDN"T YOU FLY YOUR KIDS???

the only GOOD answer to that is because THEY DON"T WANT TO FLY!

Yesterday, the child was taken from her mothers arms while comfortable and half asleep, had a helmet and goggles hurridly put on her, put in the tunnel for tv for 5 seconds, taken out, and began crying. At that time, she did not want to fly.

Is this the image you want to portray? I don't think it's a positive one - for skydivers, mainly. Although we know the child was just tired at that moment, and enjoys going in the tunnel, it would not have come across this way to the average whuffo or the millions of viewers watching. I know this because my wife, who doesn't jump or fly, was watching and was appalled. I tried to explain that she had most likely been in before and loved it, and was probbaly just tired, but you think that mattered? No. It was a publicity stunt that had a negative impact for the unknowning general member of the public, end of story. At a time with declining USPA and BPA membership rates, we need to do everything we can to promote good, well thought through publicity for the sport and it's participants.

Just my opinion.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

There is only so much you can do with Live TV.... I'm assuming this broadcast was LIVE...
There looks to be alot here that went wrong for an ideal broadcast.
I have no problem with using the kids in adverts... I would never put any kid or pet on LIVE... only adults.. anyone in the movie industry knows how hard it is to work with kids and animals...

But anyone who got too carried away not liking the 'sport' or the 'tunnel' with the crying kid must not have alot of experience with kids. Most cry during their birthday parties, when things are going well... Life startles most kids, this is normal. It's likely that they had animosity for the parent and NOT the tunnel itself (which is what we've seen in only these few posts)

You have to take it with a grain of salt..
Anyone who couldn't see AROUND that is also not likely to be all that adventurous anyway or a potential flyer... I'd say it takes a pretty liberal person to learn to fly... you either got it or you don't I think.

I'm curious Newbie..
Have you already flown at Airkix (pre-morning show broadcast)
and has your wife expressed an interest in learning (pre-morning show broadcast)

Edited to add: I'd also like to say that I suspect if the kid had been smiling and everything gone well... I can't imagine that anyone would've been upset and instead we would be talking on the other end of the spectrum and cheering Airkix's praises and how great it looked and how now more kids might want to try it and even more adults since a toddler made it look easy. of course I could be wrong... just a hunch though.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I have no problem with using the kids in adverts...

Can't stand it. I listen to the radio into and from work. Any time some 'cute' commercial comes on and the child talks about their dad's business and the kid gives the phone number - I change stations. They are invariabwy impwossible to understand, they only use kids wif poor wangwage skwills because they think it's cuter. It's vewy annoying. It reminds of kids my daughter's age that still can't ennunciate, and parents that use baby talk with their kids. It's even worse when it's two kids talking to each other about anything. It's more worse on TV.

If you want to reshingle my house, tell my why you do it better and cheaper than your competition. Don't tell me your family has to eat and try to tug at my heartstrings with your vocabularily challenged spawn - likely your competitor likes to eat too and also has kids.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

that's funny... we live in small town country and they have those on our radio too... can't help but feel the same way...specially with "Jimmy's Towing" jeez man... get a clue!!!

but I've never felt that way about seeing smiling kids faces while flying... no annunciation required

[UKFSChick 0]

Maybe this PR exercise didn't go exactly as people would have liked, given some of the opinions on here. I don't know, I didn't see it.

But I do think that in general Airkix and its staff should be applauded for getting skydiving and tunnel flying some of the best publicity it's ever had, since they opened in November. I can't think of anything that has had a more positive effect overall on how the sport of skydiving is perceived by the public than Airkix - which, unlike other tunnels at present, is heavily promoted and targeted towards non-skydivers.

Most people don't even have a clue what skydiving actually is, until they come across Airkix on their TV screen and in the major press. It's only Airkix that is bringing what we do to the media and the public in a way that is genuinely accessible to them, and that they can understand and participate in. If Airkix get it off target once in a blue moon I think we could cut them some slack.

The growth of skydiving in the UK (i.e. new entrants)will probably be powered more by Airkix than anything else over the next few years, and that can only be good for everyone involved in our sport, from DZ managers to tandem masters, AFF instructors, teams seeking sponsorship and so on.

It's Airkix being so jam-packed with whuffos that is actually allowing people to get a taste and feel for what we love about the sport - instead of reading about cut reserve risers, alcohol and drug-fuelled DZ parties, and lethal Cypress fires in sensationalised tabloid journalism.

Joe Public isn't really very interested in skydiving world records, National Championships and other aspects of the sport that we hold dear. They are interested in things that either entertain them (sensationalism) or pertain to them - in this case, tunnel flight targeted at them. Maybe after a few years of Airkix that will begin to change.

[Newbie 0]

Quote

Edited to add: I'd also like to say that I suspect if the kid had been smiling and everything gone well... I can't imagine that anyone would've been upset and instead we would be talking on the other end of the spectrum and cheering Airkix's praises and how great it looked and how now more kids might want to try it and even more adults since a toddler made it look easy. of course I could be wrong... just a hunch though.

I wholeheartedly agree - and i'm saying is that good publicity is great, but publicity can also be not so great and have a negative impact. I do NOT think all publicity is good publicity.

I have not flown at Airkix, only at Bedford, and my wife has expressed an interest in going into the tunnel, but she just thought (as did i) it was probably not giving a great message out having the child go into the tunnel when it seemingly didn't want to do so.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I understand of course.

I'm glad it didn't deter you from flying again or her for wanting to try it still.

• Quote

[tomvailco 0]

you said your daughter was upset about the pressure of live T.V? My question is does a 2 year old have any idea of pressure???

[freakydiver 0]

I would consider putting my two year old in - I learned to ski at two, was racing by 3.5. My daughter who is 1.5 started walking at 7 months and was full on controlled running by 8.5 monhts.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[dgskydive 0]

2 year olds are fine in the tunnel. At that age they are like sponges. Their entire world is about learning and they pick it up faster then a lot of jumpers I have seen. The tunnel is a safe enviornment for children as long as the wind speed is kept down. Most of the time the wind is so low that they are actually being supported by the instructors anyway. I didn't see this program, but if I had a 2 year old.......they would be flying in the tunnel if they liked it!!!!!!!

Dom

[nigelh 0]

2yr old Eve Lovemore had flown in the Tunnel before that date, If you check out this picture...

http://www.ukfreefly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103

You'll see she looks alot happier,

Nigel

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Sponored by NZ Aerosports, CYPRES 2, Tonfly & L&B

Team Dirty Sanchez #232

[darkwing 4]

Most of the pros and cons in this thread are the same for any novel activity undertaken by children. A good example is water babies. There is nothing unique about babies in tunnels. Clearly many of them love it. Just like a swimming pool you often can't really tell until you get them in. I have heard no compelling argument against babies in tunnels.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mattyblast 0]

Has there ever been a tunnel conception?

"DOOR!!!"