jasonRose 0 #1 June 1, 2005 I don't know crap about tunnels so be gentle. How close to actual freefall is a tunnel? How long can you fly per session? Does your practice in a tunnel help a ton in freefall? What is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. Just currious I have been thinking about doing it. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bowen 0 #2 June 1, 2005 QuoteI don't know crap about tunnels so be gentle. How close to actual freefall is a tunnel? How long can you fly per session? well it's pretty close. body mechanics are the same. Some things you cant do like track. You can fly as long as your body can handle it. Most people do 2 minute rotations. Some do longer. I would suggest getting with a coach and share time with someone else. 15 minutes will ware you out your first time if your not super athletic. Does your practice in a tunnel help a ton in freefall? It helps big time with your flying. Ask anyone that has some tunnel time. For what I’ve seen the more you practice in the tunnel the better flyer you will be sooner. I know some will disagree with me on this one. What is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. The nearest tunnel to you is Paris. Other then that you would have to travel towards the east coast. BowenRetired Tunnel Instructor, Sky/Tunnel Coach Former dealer for 2k Composites, Skysystems, Alti-2, Wings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #3 June 1, 2005 QuoteI don't know crap about tunnels so be gentle. How close to actual freefall is a tunnel? How long can you fly per session? Does your practice in a tunnel help a ton in freefall? What is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. Just currious I have been thinking about doing it. Perris is closest, the tunnel is most like the "middle" of your freefall, with no concerns about pulling or the aircraft exit. (beware - looks at my jump #s I'm a noob) I flew 10 minute sessions, three in two days (4pm, 10pm, 10am). Each session itself was 2 minutes in the tunnel then two in the antechamber, 5 times. All coached. The folks there are super nice people. Its cheaper if you can go down for a "Meeker Mondays" or similar promotions at Perris. The 10 pm session was my worst by far, because I was tired. The 10am Sunday session I pulled it all together with turns, PHTs, some fallrate control. I was through FJC biut hadn't jumped yet due to rain up here, (had three tandems) it'd probably make sense for you to get tunel time and jumps in also if you go there to compare for yourself. If you are having a particular problem in freefall (turning, backsliding etc) it'll be there with you in the tunnel as well, but from what I hear you'll probably get it fixed quickly (I had none of those problems ). Bring a video tape, get it all taped it's free with your tape. I was wondering if my internal FF clock would get wierded out from the 2 minutes sessions instead of the shorter blue-sky FF time, but my mind has no trouble differentiating between the net and the big green earth, so thats not been an issue with me. Also, I have family down there and it'll be stuff for them to do skydiving related, without getting on a plane. (sigh) I'll definitly fit tunnel time into my future LA trips for a while. Blue Skyes You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paige 0 #4 June 1, 2005 Quote Some things you cant do like track. You can fly as long as your body can handle it. That's odd, I've tracked in there before. There are 2 ways you can do it, it's obv. not exactly like tracking in the sky but it can be done. Muuuuuuuuch easier in the open air L1 than SV or FlyAway. Isn't that the best part? As long as your body can handle PerrisTunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #5 June 1, 2005 QuoteWhat is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. The nearest tunnel to you is Paris. Other then that you would have to travel towards the east coast. guess you mean Perris, CA, and not Paris, France, Europe....scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #6 June 1, 2005 You say tomato...... How far in advance do you need to schedule time for the tunnel in Perris?? What kind of gear do you need or is it the same as my FF gear? What does it cost?? Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #7 June 1, 2005 for reservations and pricing go here: http://www.skyventureperris.com/tunnel/reservations.asp I'd suggest using their suits, but why not just call the tunnel directly and ask them? They'll know better about their own facilities than anyone else.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paige 0 #8 June 1, 2005 Quoteguess you mean Perris, CA, and not Paris, France, Europe.... That would be an expensive mistake when booking plane tix from the USTunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bodyflight.Net 0 #9 June 1, 2005 Most of us practice tracking in the tunnel.. we call if forward for the most part.. but any of the US tunnels can be used for tracking practice.. and the wall-less variety allows you to go a bit farther with the motion.. although this seems to be a sentiment most skydivers disagree with. and on topic.. we recommend all students (at any tunnel) start with a minimum of 30 minutes and prefer that you spend 1 hour over the course of your first day.. This in my experience is not too much by any means and will give you the solid start you might be looking for. Of course this would be broken up over the course of a few hours.. you shouldn't be made to fly it all at once or even in 2 sessions.. that wouldn't be condusive to learning. Just make sure and take your time and go at your pace. Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #10 June 2, 2005 The tunnel is very close to actual freefall. There are some sutle differences: The air in the sky is cooler and fresher, and I think it feels a bit smoother too. One other difference is that in the sky you are wearing a rig, that is twenty or so pounds. If you train in the tunnel without wearing additional weight, you might notice differences due to the higher fall rate in the sky. I did. I've flown up to 3 minutes at a shot in the tunnel, and up to 20 minutes out of an hour. By far I find the sky more fun, but the tunnel is a good place to build up your skills due to both the extended flight time and video options available there. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #11 June 2, 2005 Quote What is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. FYI Ten weeks ago the air fare from Portland was actually cheaper to Orlando FL than Ontario CA. Obviously a much longer flight though. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #12 June 2, 2005 the tunnel definitely makes you work harder, some of the little mistakes that you don't really notice you are making in freefall will become a lot more noticable in the tunnel. so you'll have to have a much better flying style for the tunnel which in turn translates into better skydiving. the tunnel roxHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #13 June 2, 2005 Interesting!!!! What is the average price for tunnel time?? Does coaching cost extra?? Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paige 0 #14 June 2, 2005 At SkyVenture if you get time on an hour block its $10.50/min. If you get time on a half hour block its about $12/min. ($11 and some change). Coaching is usually $75 for 15-20min. There are some of us who do it for free, so check with your friends and who they know. You may be able to get hooked up with coaches, friends have used and liked. Hope this helps.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #15 June 2, 2005 QuoteAt SkyVenture if you get time on an hour block its $10.50/min. If you get time on a half hour block its about $12/min. ($11 and some change). Coaching is usually $75 for 15-20min. There are some of us who do it for free, so check with your friends and who they know. You may be able to get hooked up with coaches, friends have used and liked. Hope this helps. Actually, the tunnel rats who are required to generally be in there anyway are fine, free coaches. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paige 0 #16 June 2, 2005 They got me to where I am. I think my flying is a great testimate to their skill. I have only been flying in the tunnel since Oct 31st 2004. I don't have many skydives and I can fly circles around most people in there. NO WAY I could have come close to where I am without their help and support. I love those guys!Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #17 June 2, 2005 QuoteI don't have many skydives and I can fly circles around most people in there. yeah, new skydivers swirl around a lot. Don't worry, you'll get it eventually ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paige 0 #18 June 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don't have many skydives and I can fly circles around most people in there. yeah, new skydivers swirl around a lot. Don't worry, you'll get it eventually I hope so! I'm just now starting to figure stuff out- I don't get how people could think they know or have it all down. I HAVE SOOOOOOOO MUCH TO LEARN and I have a bit of time in there. It's super fun upside down though I'll tell ya that! Ha Ha Ha, I flop around in there on my head, its priceless. Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #19 June 2, 2005 Quotethe tunnel definitely makes you work harder, some of the little mistakes that you don't really notice you are making in freefall will become a lot more noticable in the tunnel. so you'll have to have a much better flying style for the tunnel which in turn translates into better skydiving. the tunnel rox I did more than four hours in the tunnel, and learned fine control, before I ever jumped. So, I missed out noticing how much sliding and drifting experienced skydivers do, when going into the tunnel for the first time. I have heard people talking about it though. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #20 June 3, 2005 Can you get hurt badly in a tunnel? Like tracking into a wall or something? Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #21 June 3, 2005 You can definitely get hurt in a tunnel, with or without walls. The instructors will give you a safety briefing before your first time. If you listen and follow the rules, chances are you'll be fine.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bodyflight.Net 0 #22 June 3, 2005 QuoteIs flying in vertical wind tunnels dangerous? Honestly, the legal answer would be Yes, because the risk of injury can be great. The risks of injury include every injury you could sustain from a low impact sport injuries; strains, breaks, dislocations and in a severe case a bad fall could result in death. HOWEVER, it is important to note, that to our knowledge in over 20 years, only one has ever died as a result of participating in this sport. (Paris) You are at the greatest risk in the first 5 minutes you spend as a student learning to fly. As you are learning to fly, your brain is busy consuming the new information and therefore places you at an 'awareness level' that's below average. You have spent your entire life walking & being oriented vertically, and flying is done in a horizontal orientation and will take your brain a few minutes to comprehend. After a few minutes, your brain begins to settle down and process the flying just as it does anything else. Once you can understand what you are doing, and have learned the basic skills required, your risk of injury drop exponentially. At this point in time you are in control of your body, you are able begin performing maneuvers. Each time you learn a new maneuver your risk increases slightly and then decreases again with proficiency. quoting myself here Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alw 0 #23 June 4, 2005 Tunnel Physics I believe that flying in the tunnel helps me with precision much more so than flying in the sky. The reference points are stationary so you have a stable point of relativity. Style (not for points but for stability) is different in tunnels - it's physics. For instance - some tunnels vary the air speed which adds an additional dynamic you won't find falling (where you are the only one changing the air speed). Tunnels are subject to the same fluid flow dynamics as water in a pipe. that is, the air flow in the center is faster in the center of the air column. That is much more pronounce in a tunnel with walls. The doors in walled tunnels also affect laminar flow. It's a fine point, but it does have an effect. Density varies with altitude in the sky but is fairly constant in the tunnel so be prepared for variations at the top and bottom of the dive that you don't experience in the tunnel. All of these differences are less noticeable to low time flyers. The Tunnel fun factor is as high for me as free falling. I don't miss the canopy flight at the tunnel cause there are other bits that compensate - like watching an expert fly without worrying about the need to save your own life. Short answer - anything that improves your ability to control your body in 3d is beneficial to one's coexistence with the universe. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bodyflight.Net 0 #24 June 4, 2005 QuoteTunnels are subject to the same fluid flow dynamics as water in a pipe. that is, the air flow in the center is faster in the center of the air column. today's modern tunnels (SV & AAC) were both designed to avoid that issue. SV walls compress a larger air column.. which in turn moves the air along the walls (perhaps with more speed but creates an efficient boundary layer that keeps you off of the walls), this is what allows some of the vertical maneuvers that are being done without impacting the walls. and the AAC tunnel.. even though it has no walls... was also designed to be slightly faster around the perimeter of the air column (which takes a bit of design creativity without an outside force like walls to do the compressing)... this makes it easier to stay in the air, in an outdoor, and also helps maintain the integrity of the air flow from cross winds. a good tunnel, which both of these are, will provide consistent airspeeds throughout the column when working at peak efficiency. I'm thinking it was Wright Patt that offered the same type of flow (could be Bragg) but the air was slightly faster around the edge too.. (a pie plate experiment demonstrated this) so it's not really a "new" idea.. just a solid idea that worked well.. and so has been implemented in non-military type tunnels too. Edited to add: I'm not talking about a huge difference in the profile.. only a couple of mph difference... all of the tunnels mentioned have a fairily uniform profile providing the laminar flow we all want so much. Older style & aerodynamically challenged tunnels, provide faster air in the center of the column. But that has everything to do with setup.. there is no intake.. the air comes in from everywhere,,then is pulled up through a prop, over the hub, through the net and then it disappates. Quotesome tunnels vary the air speed which adds an additional dynamic you won't find falling The only time I've seen that is when there is a student learning to fly. Once you have learned to fly.. you will get a consistent airspeed. We all know what airpspeed or RPMs we like to fly at..(I'm a fan of 125mph or so) so once you are on your own.. there shouldn't be any air speed changes.. a good tunnel will be able to maintain the flow at whatever speed you like. (or perhaps you just got a controller who was having some fun with ya???) Quotewithout worrying about the need to save your own life. AMEN TO THAT!!!Now.. I'm off to go fly with some WFFC friends!!! Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alw 0 #25 June 4, 2005 Quote*** (or perhaps you just got a controller who was having some fun with ya???) I heard that!!! --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Guest #3 June 1, 2005 QuoteI don't know crap about tunnels so be gentle. How close to actual freefall is a tunnel? How long can you fly per session? Does your practice in a tunnel help a ton in freefall? What is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. Just currious I have been thinking about doing it. Perris is closest, the tunnel is most like the "middle" of your freefall, with no concerns about pulling or the aircraft exit. (beware - looks at my jump #s I'm a noob) I flew 10 minute sessions, three in two days (4pm, 10pm, 10am). Each session itself was 2 minutes in the tunnel then two in the antechamber, 5 times. All coached. The folks there are super nice people. Its cheaper if you can go down for a "Meeker Mondays" or similar promotions at Perris. The 10 pm session was my worst by far, because I was tired. The 10am Sunday session I pulled it all together with turns, PHTs, some fallrate control. I was through FJC biut hadn't jumped yet due to rain up here, (had three tandems) it'd probably make sense for you to get tunel time and jumps in also if you go there to compare for yourself. If you are having a particular problem in freefall (turning, backsliding etc) it'll be there with you in the tunnel as well, but from what I hear you'll probably get it fixed quickly (I had none of those problems ). Bring a video tape, get it all taped it's free with your tape. I was wondering if my internal FF clock would get wierded out from the 2 minutes sessions instead of the shorter blue-sky FF time, but my mind has no trouble differentiating between the net and the big green earth, so thats not been an issue with me. Also, I have family down there and it'll be stuff for them to do skydiving related, without getting on a plane. (sigh) I'll definitly fit tunnel time into my future LA trips for a while. Blue Skyes You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #4 June 1, 2005 Quote Some things you cant do like track. You can fly as long as your body can handle it. That's odd, I've tracked in there before. There are 2 ways you can do it, it's obv. not exactly like tracking in the sky but it can be done. Muuuuuuuuch easier in the open air L1 than SV or FlyAway. Isn't that the best part? As long as your body can handle PerrisTunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #5 June 1, 2005 QuoteWhat is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. The nearest tunnel to you is Paris. Other then that you would have to travel towards the east coast. guess you mean Perris, CA, and not Paris, France, Europe....scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #6 June 1, 2005 You say tomato...... How far in advance do you need to schedule time for the tunnel in Perris?? What kind of gear do you need or is it the same as my FF gear? What does it cost?? Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #7 June 1, 2005 for reservations and pricing go here: http://www.skyventureperris.com/tunnel/reservations.asp I'd suggest using their suits, but why not just call the tunnel directly and ask them? They'll know better about their own facilities than anyone else.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #8 June 1, 2005 Quoteguess you mean Perris, CA, and not Paris, France, Europe.... That would be an expensive mistake when booking plane tix from the USTunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #9 June 1, 2005 Most of us practice tracking in the tunnel.. we call if forward for the most part.. but any of the US tunnels can be used for tracking practice.. and the wall-less variety allows you to go a bit farther with the motion.. although this seems to be a sentiment most skydivers disagree with. and on topic.. we recommend all students (at any tunnel) start with a minimum of 30 minutes and prefer that you spend 1 hour over the course of your first day.. This in my experience is not too much by any means and will give you the solid start you might be looking for. Of course this would be broken up over the course of a few hours.. you shouldn't be made to fly it all at once or even in 2 sessions.. that wouldn't be condusive to learning. Just make sure and take your time and go at your pace. Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #10 June 2, 2005 The tunnel is very close to actual freefall. There are some sutle differences: The air in the sky is cooler and fresher, and I think it feels a bit smoother too. One other difference is that in the sky you are wearing a rig, that is twenty or so pounds. If you train in the tunnel without wearing additional weight, you might notice differences due to the higher fall rate in the sky. I did. I've flown up to 3 minutes at a shot in the tunnel, and up to 20 minutes out of an hour. By far I find the sky more fun, but the tunnel is a good place to build up your skills due to both the extended flight time and video options available there. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #11 June 2, 2005 Quote What is the nearest tunnel to Richland Washington. FYI Ten weeks ago the air fare from Portland was actually cheaper to Orlando FL than Ontario CA. Obviously a much longer flight though. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #12 June 2, 2005 the tunnel definitely makes you work harder, some of the little mistakes that you don't really notice you are making in freefall will become a lot more noticable in the tunnel. so you'll have to have a much better flying style for the tunnel which in turn translates into better skydiving. the tunnel roxHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #13 June 2, 2005 Interesting!!!! What is the average price for tunnel time?? Does coaching cost extra?? Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #14 June 2, 2005 At SkyVenture if you get time on an hour block its $10.50/min. If you get time on a half hour block its about $12/min. ($11 and some change). Coaching is usually $75 for 15-20min. There are some of us who do it for free, so check with your friends and who they know. You may be able to get hooked up with coaches, friends have used and liked. Hope this helps.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #15 June 2, 2005 QuoteAt SkyVenture if you get time on an hour block its $10.50/min. If you get time on a half hour block its about $12/min. ($11 and some change). Coaching is usually $75 for 15-20min. There are some of us who do it for free, so check with your friends and who they know. You may be able to get hooked up with coaches, friends have used and liked. Hope this helps. Actually, the tunnel rats who are required to generally be in there anyway are fine, free coaches. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #16 June 2, 2005 They got me to where I am. I think my flying is a great testimate to their skill. I have only been flying in the tunnel since Oct 31st 2004. I don't have many skydives and I can fly circles around most people in there. NO WAY I could have come close to where I am without their help and support. I love those guys!Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #17 June 2, 2005 QuoteI don't have many skydives and I can fly circles around most people in there. yeah, new skydivers swirl around a lot. Don't worry, you'll get it eventually ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #18 June 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don't have many skydives and I can fly circles around most people in there. yeah, new skydivers swirl around a lot. Don't worry, you'll get it eventually I hope so! I'm just now starting to figure stuff out- I don't get how people could think they know or have it all down. I HAVE SOOOOOOOO MUCH TO LEARN and I have a bit of time in there. It's super fun upside down though I'll tell ya that! Ha Ha Ha, I flop around in there on my head, its priceless. Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #19 June 2, 2005 Quotethe tunnel definitely makes you work harder, some of the little mistakes that you don't really notice you are making in freefall will become a lot more noticable in the tunnel. so you'll have to have a much better flying style for the tunnel which in turn translates into better skydiving. the tunnel rox I did more than four hours in the tunnel, and learned fine control, before I ever jumped. So, I missed out noticing how much sliding and drifting experienced skydivers do, when going into the tunnel for the first time. I have heard people talking about it though. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #20 June 3, 2005 Can you get hurt badly in a tunnel? Like tracking into a wall or something? Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #21 June 3, 2005 You can definitely get hurt in a tunnel, with or without walls. The instructors will give you a safety briefing before your first time. If you listen and follow the rules, chances are you'll be fine.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #22 June 3, 2005 QuoteIs flying in vertical wind tunnels dangerous? Honestly, the legal answer would be Yes, because the risk of injury can be great. The risks of injury include every injury you could sustain from a low impact sport injuries; strains, breaks, dislocations and in a severe case a bad fall could result in death. HOWEVER, it is important to note, that to our knowledge in over 20 years, only one has ever died as a result of participating in this sport. (Paris) You are at the greatest risk in the first 5 minutes you spend as a student learning to fly. As you are learning to fly, your brain is busy consuming the new information and therefore places you at an 'awareness level' that's below average. You have spent your entire life walking & being oriented vertically, and flying is done in a horizontal orientation and will take your brain a few minutes to comprehend. After a few minutes, your brain begins to settle down and process the flying just as it does anything else. Once you can understand what you are doing, and have learned the basic skills required, your risk of injury drop exponentially. At this point in time you are in control of your body, you are able begin performing maneuvers. Each time you learn a new maneuver your risk increases slightly and then decreases again with proficiency. quoting myself here Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alw 0 #23 June 4, 2005 Tunnel Physics I believe that flying in the tunnel helps me with precision much more so than flying in the sky. The reference points are stationary so you have a stable point of relativity. Style (not for points but for stability) is different in tunnels - it's physics. For instance - some tunnels vary the air speed which adds an additional dynamic you won't find falling (where you are the only one changing the air speed). Tunnels are subject to the same fluid flow dynamics as water in a pipe. that is, the air flow in the center is faster in the center of the air column. That is much more pronounce in a tunnel with walls. The doors in walled tunnels also affect laminar flow. It's a fine point, but it does have an effect. Density varies with altitude in the sky but is fairly constant in the tunnel so be prepared for variations at the top and bottom of the dive that you don't experience in the tunnel. All of these differences are less noticeable to low time flyers. The Tunnel fun factor is as high for me as free falling. I don't miss the canopy flight at the tunnel cause there are other bits that compensate - like watching an expert fly without worrying about the need to save your own life. Short answer - anything that improves your ability to control your body in 3d is beneficial to one's coexistence with the universe. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #24 June 4, 2005 QuoteTunnels are subject to the same fluid flow dynamics as water in a pipe. that is, the air flow in the center is faster in the center of the air column. today's modern tunnels (SV & AAC) were both designed to avoid that issue. SV walls compress a larger air column.. which in turn moves the air along the walls (perhaps with more speed but creates an efficient boundary layer that keeps you off of the walls), this is what allows some of the vertical maneuvers that are being done without impacting the walls. and the AAC tunnel.. even though it has no walls... was also designed to be slightly faster around the perimeter of the air column (which takes a bit of design creativity without an outside force like walls to do the compressing)... this makes it easier to stay in the air, in an outdoor, and also helps maintain the integrity of the air flow from cross winds. a good tunnel, which both of these are, will provide consistent airspeeds throughout the column when working at peak efficiency. I'm thinking it was Wright Patt that offered the same type of flow (could be Bragg) but the air was slightly faster around the edge too.. (a pie plate experiment demonstrated this) so it's not really a "new" idea.. just a solid idea that worked well.. and so has been implemented in non-military type tunnels too. Edited to add: I'm not talking about a huge difference in the profile.. only a couple of mph difference... all of the tunnels mentioned have a fairily uniform profile providing the laminar flow we all want so much. Older style & aerodynamically challenged tunnels, provide faster air in the center of the column. But that has everything to do with setup.. there is no intake.. the air comes in from everywhere,,then is pulled up through a prop, over the hub, through the net and then it disappates. Quotesome tunnels vary the air speed which adds an additional dynamic you won't find falling The only time I've seen that is when there is a student learning to fly. Once you have learned to fly.. you will get a consistent airspeed. We all know what airpspeed or RPMs we like to fly at..(I'm a fan of 125mph or so) so once you are on your own.. there shouldn't be any air speed changes.. a good tunnel will be able to maintain the flow at whatever speed you like. (or perhaps you just got a controller who was having some fun with ya???) Quotewithout worrying about the need to save your own life. AMEN TO THAT!!!Now.. I'm off to go fly with some WFFC friends!!! Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alw 0 #25 June 4, 2005 Quote*** (or perhaps you just got a controller who was having some fun with ya???) I heard that!!! --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
