Stupid question - Tethered tunnel tracking?

[councilman24 36]

A comment made by somebody else raised a stupid question in my mind. Has anybody tried tethered tunnel flying for tracking pratice? Efficiency measured by load cell or some such.

I envision a center of mass (variable) supension point on a harness suspended by a dynomometer or load cell to a cross bar in the tunnel. Short enough to keep from hitting the side.

Okay, I've only been in a tunnel once and I haven't paid much attention to them. There must be something wrong with this idea. Strangulation comes to mind.

But a base guy wished for a slanted tunnel to practice tracking for cliff dives.

Flame on, waiting to feel stupid.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Levin 0]

very creative idea

hope the rope doesn't break

seriously, it sounds like it could work. would probably be best to try it at the new L1 tunnel in NC. or wear a neck brace (just in case) if you try it in a tunnel with walls.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

The premise isn't stupid at all if you consider that ever MFF student in the Fort Bragg tunnel is first flown on a tether prior to being "AFF'd" and then ultimately allowed to fly freely. It would not be difficult at all to rig such a device onto a person, at least in our tunnel since the net is pre-rigged for such things.

Chuck

[councilman24 36]

Damn! I knew I should have patented it!

I do high angle rescue rope work. My 9000lb rescue rope isn't going to break. We all trust our lives to webing, string, and cloth every jump.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

Hmmm, I guess I was thinking of a tether above for increasing "fall rate" during track. Or is there a net on top?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[freeflyn 0]

If you want to practice back tracking in the tunnel I recommend flying on your back to the door, place your feet (up to your knees) in the door (off the ground) and assume your back tracking position. I have found this to be very effective, however, I have not tried this on my belly.

[NeedToJump 0]

Don't know about tethered tunnel flying, but there's a few ways I know of to practice tracking that all work -

- you can go up against a wall and gradually increase your track

- track against a person or have a person hold on to you while you track

- put your feet in the doorway and track

Hope this helps you out

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

You guys are both assuming enclosed-venturi tunnels with hard walls. At the Bragg tunnel the entire chamber is closed, but the air column is vectored in a recirculatory manner which allows for about five feet of pads all the way around the cone over to the walls (which have windows all the way around). If tethered in the center you can absolutely track as hard as you like against the rope without hitting any walls.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Hmmm, I guess I was thinking of a tether above for increasing "fall rate" during track. Or is there a net on top?

"Increasing" your fallrate in a track isn't something you'd want to do. If done correctly your fallrate should "decrease".
On a normal RW skydive my fall rate is about 116mph, and when tracking it usually decreases to about 88mph.

IMO, tracking is better taught in "real" freefall from an aircraft.


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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"Increasing" your fallrate in a track isn't something you'd want to do. If done correctly your fallrate should "decrease".

Well said... and so true.. I've always wondered, why so many people track nearly straight down at the ground, increasing their speed & fall rate..
I've always thought tracking was supposed to be on more of a horizontal plane and should slow me down, just like forward in a wind tunnel.

As to tethering..
We sometimes us a climbing type harness attached to the net with students that allows forward and backward movement without leaving the air column (of course we don't use this in wall to wall air tunnels).. it helps greatly to get the forward track and back slide movements down to instinct.

I think its good to practice the position in the tunnel, but you truly need some altitude to make it really work.

[NeedToJump 0]

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You guys are both assuming enclosed-venturi tunnels with hard walls

Yup, guilty, whenever I hear "tunnel" I always think SkyVenture Orlando, oops

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If tethered in the center you can absolutely track as hard as you like against the rope without hitting any walls

That sounds really cool and is something I'd love to try when I make it to a wall-less tunnel.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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That sounds really cool and is something I'd love to try when I make it to a wall-less tunnel.

We're waitin for you Ari!!!

[Ron 7]

For a real track you have to be able to use lift.

You can't get lift without forward movement.

You can practice the position several ways.
My fav is to have a person put his hands on your shoulders and hold you back. It can be done in a closed tunnel (SV) by having the guy stand with his back against the wall. Or in an open tunnel (Bragg) by having the guy stand ouside the airflow.

But each will not give you the correct feed back for a max track.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,446]

Great for practicing stability, but unless the tunnel can be tilted to simulate the altered relative wind in a track, you're not going to get the same sensation as you would get in a track. In other words, you could no doubt max out your track on the load cell, but that would not correspond to the best way to move across the sky.

[Paulipod 0]

Not really thought about it before, but I am not sure a tilt would be relevant to simulating a track environment?

Even in a track, I would guess the forward speed is not high enough to warrent a change in relative wind direction? Just my gut thought - may be well off the mark

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[pilotdave 0]

What changes is the angle between the graviational force (your weight) and the relative wind. You are (i hope) moving forward when you track.

An angled tunnel would work for tracking, but think about what would happen if you turned just a little by mistake. In the air, the direction of your track just changes a little. In the tunnel, you could slam into a wall (assuming there was a wall).

Dave

[billvon 2,446]

>but I am not sure a tilt would be relevant to simulating a track environment?

On a really good track you can reach around a 40 degree glide, which means the relative wind has moved by 40 degrees compared to normal freefall.

[Paulipod 0]

wow... 40 degrees is certainly alot more than I would have guessed...

If my tracking was better I may have known think I am lucky if I bet 5 degrees! too many chocolate bars!

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[flyangel2 2]

To continue my discussion with matttrudeau about tracking in a tunnel.

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I have to disagree and say that tunnel will help him tracking and diving into a formation. Just because he won't be traveling across the sky, doesn't mean he won't know how to do it better with tunnel flying. The tunnel will make him a better flyer and I would much rather have experience in the tunnel before I dove into a formation for the first time. Tracking can also be practiced in the tunnel. The position is exactly the same as in the sky without the obvious horizontal movement. Just ask the instructor about it and they can show you what I'm talking about. The tunnel will help in every aspect of bodyflight. Just because it's not exactly the same, doesn't mean it won't adequately prepare you and give you confidence to do the real thing.

As others on this thread have mentioned, it is possible to practice tracking in the tunnel, but you aren't going to get the correct feel for it, IMO.

I agree, the tunnel can make anyone a better fly in any kind of formation. The tunnel allows you to practice your docking, matching fall rate, and most important, build confidence. There are all kinds of drill dives that can be done in the tunnel to build big ways skills. But, to get the true feel of a good dive or track, you have to have a lot more room then what a tunnel will offer.

I don't know if I want to be on the receiving end of some one practicing their dive down to a base 20 way with me being the sitting duck.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I don't know if I want to be on the receiving end of some one practicing their dive down to a base 20 way with me being the sitting duck.

You would make a good target, just make sure to wear you JFTC jumpsuit.

Ya, a lot of diving down to a formation is depth perception and being able to stop quickly and in time. Over shooting a dive is serious because of the speeds involved. The tunnel would not be a good training tool for diving or tracking.

Derek

[mdrejhon 8]

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To continue my discussion with matttrudeau about tracking in a tunnel.

Funny, I feel responsible. (I brought up the subject originally in a wind tunnel thread, which flyangel2 replied to, then )

I am already praticing my tracking on my freefall solos and did my first 4-way tracking jump. (I wasn't intending to pratice tracking in a windtunnel... but about flying my slot more accurately after I finished tracking, and fallrate controlling myself more accurately.)

But this is all interesting reading nontheless.

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