Pax harness MLW adjustment before exit

[Rover 9]

To all the TIs out there that crank the MLW of the pax harness in to the max before they jump I'd like to ask why? I understand there are 'special' cases such as big bottomed women where it has its advantages - but for the majority cases, don't you have faith in the fact that how you adjust it on the ground is how you want it in freefall?

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[BIGUN 1,053]

I used to tighten it down an extra inch and tell them, "There, that's about as tight as it's going to get" to give the student a little extra sense of psychological security before we left the plane... had nothing to do with how I'd fit it on the ground; just kinda helped to make them relax a little in freefall.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[pchapman 261]

I generally agree with your overall sentiment.

There are couple good reasons to tighten the MLW in the aircraft that I can think of:

- special case like a big, tall student in a cramped C-182, making it easier to reach the hooks for hookup, then cranking the MLW to bring the hooks forward closer to the desired location for the jump

- yeah, fat people, even when the leg straps seem tight, they'll still sink down lower in the harness on opening

Just as students can get all worried about the harness feeling loose when they are sitting down, instructors can get a little worried too. Legs straps can loosen up a little if the student has been waiting on the ground a while, so I can at least understand a little extra tightening (not 'to the max'), even if it may not be needed in a particular case.

There is an expectation these days for instructors to not let students be loose in the harness, so some will err on the side of over tight than over loose. Perhaps a student who can't arch well is still better off than one slumped down, loose in the harness, chest strap at their chin after opening.

[Fast 0]

I have been working on the right balance between too tight and too loose. If I leave a student MLW at the exact length that it is when they are standing up, under canopy they are sitting about 5-6 inches lower. I don't really like that cause they end up way down below me and it makes it substantially harder to deal with on landing.

It doesn't really bother me in freefall if they end up a bit knees down, so I don't feel like I'm giving up that much if I make the harness a bit tighter than looser.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[feuergnom 22]

gee - rover and me are sharing the same pet peeve and we agree on something

as i am only familiar with strong systems I can't comment on vector etc bt I guess it's all the same: adjust the pax harness on ground properly before boarding the aircraft. that means the harness shouldn't need any further adjustments thereafter, especially the MLW. if you tighten the MLW any further the ability of performing a proper arch is hindered imo. but YMMV....
also: I never could get the mindset of boarding with a completly loose pax harness and then adjusting everything on the way to alti within the last couple a hundred feet before exit I had quite some interesting conversations with other TI's concerning this, most of the times I was told to mind my own business - and that's what I've been sticking to for the last years...

edit to add: of course I make shure that all the straps are still in plce when hooking up - which can be a royal pain. and until the mods on the stell hardware came up, i triple checked for legstrap slippage

as for the pax going lower after deployment: I hear your pain, thats been giving me some thoughts but I never came up with a real satisfying solution. my shot: some pax just go completly "limp" after canopy is out thus sinking down, others "keep their composure" these ones tend to be "higher up"

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[richwilk 2]

I'm current and on both Sigma and Strong and have about 4000 on each. Put it simply, check your harness before emplaning and before exit. Stuff moves, people play with stuff. Correctly adjusted or not before exit, check it. Slightly tightening the lateral back strap, slightly loosening the belly band, slightly tightening the MLW will help most when it happens; opening and landing. A good arch in freefall is nice but having a passenger who can comfortably sit in the harness and get the legs up for landing is a great deal more important in an effort to reduce the likelyhood of landing injuries and litigation.

[Rover 9]

Quote

gee - rover and me are sharing the same pet peeve and we agree on something

Olive branch accepted.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[feuergnom 22]

Quote

Correctly adjusted or not before exit, check it

exactly my point

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[jimjumper 25]

The newer Strong harnesses has the excess harness length coming up from the bottom of the MLW making it very difficult to even adjust it in the plane. We only have those kind of harnesses so they must be adjusted when fitted on the ground. Since the chest strap then is able to slide up and down the main lift web it's easy to adjust once under canopy to give the student more comfort. I've also found that tightening down the back diagonals a bit extra really helps with the "larger than life" types that tend to slump after opening. I like my students ready to be hooked up before we get on the plane but each instructor has their own way of doing things.

[douwanto 22]

a bit knees down in free fall is the first step to ass out on opening. talk about making students feel uncomfortable... tighten the harness up so they cant arch and the feel like something is wrong the whole skydive because they CANT arch.....

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[koppel 3]

Quote

a bit knees down in free fall is the first step to ass out on opening. talk about making students feel uncomfortable... tighten the harness up so they cant arch and the feel like something is wrong the whole skydive because they CANT arch.....

You forgot to add the bit where the TI bitches about the student for not arching because the harness was distorting them all out of shape ;)

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[DougH 270]

If you find the student is sitting a little low after opening can you get them to stand on your feet while you crank down the MLW adjustment? Don't know if it is possible, and it definetly isn't desirable over getting the adjustment right the first time, but I was just wondering if anyone has tried.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[johnny1488 1]

The best solution I have for that is to run your rig longer. The longer the rigs mlw, the higher the student sits. I put the chest strap just under my throat under canopy. The new sigma harness is almost all the way out when I jump it. It's way more comfortable then having it jacked up on my back. I like my sport rig tight but my tandem loose (long). It's a tool for me to get the job done. There no reason you can't adjust the harness correctly (being able to arch but also be completely safe) and have a great landing. The sigma harness makes it super easy to have the students legs up when done properly. Never low on me. I'm 6' and have landed students as tall as 6'9" with no problem. Plus the fat chicks. Can't forget about them!

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome